I was looking over the wiki page outline for the virtualization getting
started guide, and thought two things:
1. Do we need a chapter (3) on why someone should use virtualization
2. I think we should include a chapter about Docker
I was thinking about Docker because to overcome the publican problems in
Fedora22 I built a Fedora21 image with publican so I can build the
guides. It occurred to me that it probably should be in the guide as well.
Meeting about Virtualization in Fedora Documentation
(04:07:15 PM) lnovich: I'm here
(04:07:59 PM) lnovich: i am not sure how to start a meeting, so let's begin?
(04:09:11 PM) grundblom: neat, I think we were discussing the virtualization guide, I pulled it down and I see the last commit from June 1 2014 by Pete Travis, do I have the correct one?
(04:09:27 PM) ruigo_ [rgouveia@nat/redhat/x-ulytgqsqbmktyizi] entered the room.
(04:09:30 PM) lnovich: need to distinguish with a brief history
(04:09:45 PM) lnovich: there is more than one virtualization guide
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(04:10:23 PM) grundblom: sure:
(04:10:24 PM) lnovich: so we need to be specific. - I created a guide about a year ago called the virtualization deployment and administration guide
(04:10:44 PM) lnovich: it WAS up to date for Fedora 19/20
(04:11:02 PM) lnovich: and should have been published at the time - it was left in draft state
(04:11:14 PM) lnovich: then there is the virtualization guide
(04:11:20 PM) lnovich: which should be much older
(04:12:08 PM) lnovich: what Pete did I don't recall
(04:12:42 PM) grundblom: Oh, so I might be looking at the wrong guide
(04:13:09 PM) lnovich: i kind of pulled out of the project so I am not sure what happened during my absence
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(04:13:54 PM) lnovich: randomuser would /should know
(04:14:01 PM) grundblom: So in the last docs meeting, we were discussing focusing attention on it right? or did I misinterpret that?
(04:14:02 PM) grundblom: or at least on one of them..
(04:14:11 PM) lnovich: yes
(04:14:12 PM) mccann [4281f10a(a)gateway/web/freenode/ip.18.104.22.168] entered the room.
(04:14:30 PM) lnovich: that was right we were discussing adding new content
(04:14:49 PM) lnovich: I haven't seen this content and don't know where it has been discussed to add it
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(04:15:55 PM) grundblom: Well the virt-getting-started guide has had some updates, smccann and I have been working on it.. I think that is some of the new content
(04:16:03 PM) lnovich: ok
(04:16:12 PM) lnovich: that is an excellent place to start
(04:16:26 PM) smccann: sorry to join late
(04:16:30 PM) lnovich: have the changes been committed?
(04:16:46 PM) lnovich: do you have an outline somewhere on a wiki page?
(04:18:03 PM) grundblom: that I do not know, I myself did not make an outline, my last commits to the virt-getting-started guide were just before F22 release
(04:18:19 PM) lnovich: nevermind found the guide
(04:19:37 PM) grundblom: I was hoping to bring some of the boxes content from the virt-getting-started guide to the virt guide, but, I am now wondering which guide it would be appropriate for
(04:19:58 PM) lnovich: understand your confusion
(04:20:11 PM) Capesteve: lnovich: check the branches, I think smccann has been committing to a branch
(04:20:15 PM) lnovich: let's first of all take a look at the getting started guide
(04:20:21 PM) smccann: his changes and mine were published with F22
(04:20:40 PM) smccann: Capesteve - I graduated to master branch before the f22 release :-)
(04:20:57 PM) lnovich: ok back to what I was saying?
(04:20:59 PM) smccann: So what's out on the web is the latest/greatest on the virt getting started
(04:21:06 PM) lnovich: yes
(04:21:14 PM) lnovich: it should be
(04:21:26 PM) Capesteve: oh, good news :)
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(04:21:50 PM) lnovich: the getting started guide needs some more revisions to change it into something better
(04:22:14 PM) smccann: ok feedback always welcome!
(04:22:46 PM) lnovich: this is no fault to you, but we should decide how this guide is going to be planned
(04:22:53 PM) lnovich: what information is to stay/ leave
(04:22:58 PM) lnovich: and what needs to be addede
(04:23:00 PM) lnovich: added
(04:23:33 PM) smccann: what's the best way to track your recommendations? bugs? wiki page? email list?
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(04:23:39 PM) lnovich: if this is a getting started all it needs is 1 a brief intro and 2 a quick start
(04:24:03 PM) lnovich: HOWEVER - if this is to become an Installation guide - that is something else all together
(04:24:15 PM) lnovich: that choice is up to you
(04:24:29 PM) smccann: i'd like to keep it a getting started - for the newbie who just wants to bring up a VM and use it.
(04:24:50 PM) lnovich: the virtualization deployment and admin guide is much more comprehensive
(04:25:05 PM) lnovich: ok so a newbie needs more info
(04:25:22 PM) lnovich: chapter 2 is in need of several things
(04:25:46 PM) lnovich: we need to explain what a hypervisor is
(04:25:55 PM) ruigo_ [rgouveia@nat/redhat/x-whkerbzuyeoftdor] entered the room.
(04:26:00 PM) lnovich: what guests/hypervisors are supported
(04:26:15 PM) lnovich: and what the possibilities are in combination
(04:27:04 PM) lnovich: we should also explain how devices are emulated
(04:27:30 PM) smccann: hmm... does a newbie wanting to bring up a VM really need the emulation details?
(04:27:44 PM) lnovich: no but they won't know it is possible to do so
(04:27:56 PM) lnovich: not the nitty gritty details
(04:27:59 PM) smccann: k so just a brief intro to it
(04:29:16 PM) lnovich: we should probably put these ideas into a wiki page somewhere
(04:30:14 PM) smccann: yeah I'm taking notes I can move to a wiki but how do I decide where to put it?
(04:30:43 PM) lnovich: I'll set up a page
(04:31:10 PM) smccann: kk
(04:31:10 PM) grundblom: Thats what I was thinking, I didnt know if there were Fedora wiki guide change pages..
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(04:37:50 PM) grundblom: smccann does the current virt getting started guide build for you?
(04:38:39 PM) smccann: it did before I upgraded to f22. I noticed it didn't after that, but wondered if I'd messed up my upgrade. I haven't gone back to check
(04:39:06 PM) smccann: and I'm not on that machine right now. IF you are also having issues, then it wasn't my upgrade that messed it up. I'll poke at it later
(04:39:09 PM) grundblom: Yeah it does not build on my F22 box, I did a nuke and pave install..
(04:39:26 PM) ***randomuser sips coffee
(04:39:37 PM) smccann: hmm. there was something somewhere about publican perhaps having issues in f22... sound familiar to anyone here?
(04:39:42 PM) randomuser: there is a known libxml2 bug affectiong f>21
(04:40:01 PM) randomuser: the spelling is at the bottom of the mug
(04:40:09 PM) smccann: randomuser - so we should continue to build on F21 only?
(04:41:49 PM) grundblom: hrm, I missed that bug..
(04:41:59 PM) pbokoc: you could make a VM :)
(04:42:05 PM) pbokoc: or a container
(04:42:30 PM) randomuser: CC yourself on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1199396 to start
(04:42:36 PM) smccann: AAAHAHAH!!!
(04:42:42 PM) grundblom: We could make a F21 box in our F22 install to make documentation for F22
(04:42:58 PM) randomuser: I've been using yelp to preview and a vm for proofing
(04:43:02 PM) smccann: yes, pbokoc and grundblom, we could!
(04:43:20 PM) grundblom: I am going to need more hard drive space and ram...
(04:43:41 PM) randomuser: but really, get on that bug. The package maintainer gets a notification every time, often more CCs is treated as an escalation
(04:43:51 PM) bexelbie: consider using a docker container to run publican
(04:44:00 PM) bexelbie: yruseva, almost has a container completed ^^
(04:44:23 PM) ***bexelbie does it with some other publishing tools that are "fragile" or want a crap-ton of dependencies I don't want on my main box
(04:45:14 PM) smccann: erm.. new to docker, where do we document that for fedora? :-)
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(04:46:39 PM) pbokoc: Docker documents that for Fedora :) https://docs.docker.com/installation/fedora/
(04:46:58 PM) lnovich: nested virtualization is working in F22?
(04:47:18 PM) mnavrati [milan@nat/redhat/x-qzmvvzhysisrczbg] entered the room.
(04:48:15 PM) randomuser: iirc you have to do something extra to make it work, lnovich, but it's been a few years since I've tried
(04:48:42 PM) Corey84: nested as in vm in a vm ?
(04:48:52 PM) lnovich: Corey84: yes
(04:49:11 PM) lnovich: otherwise you won't be able to install a vm on a vm
(04:49:22 PM) bexelbie: docker is installed by default
(04:49:25 PM) p_ondrejka [peter@nat/redhat/x-oeefiklypuszmtut] entered the room.
(04:49:30 PM) bexelbie: in F21 and F22 iirc
(04:49:32 PM) smccann: there was something in BIOS to check/change i think
(04:49:54 PM) grundblom: Ok, so for my take-aways I have: 1. Install Docker and get the publican tools from F21 working so I can build again,
(04:50:25 PM) lnovich: ok so something more to add to the guides
(04:50:30 PM) bexelbie: grundblom, if you are going to get the tools working you can use a VM and not have to learn Docker - in the future yruseva should have a container we can use
(04:50:30 PM) grundblom: lnovich is making a wiki page for an outline on what we need to do for the virt-getting-started guide to be able to bring its content to a more comprehensive guide..
(04:50:36 PM) ***bexelbie may be able to push her a bit this week :D
(04:50:46 PM) lnovich: push who?
(04:51:01 PM) Corey84: i've recently done docker with vm but not vm in vm
(04:51:03 PM) lnovich: you better have very long arms....
(04:51:27 PM) lnovich: randomuser: do you have a suggestion where to put this wiki page?
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(04:52:23 PM) randomuser: hmm? what wiki page?
(04:52:37 PM) bexelbie: push yruseva
(04:53:05 PM) lnovich: randomuser: (04:50:30 PM) grundblom: lnovich is making a wiki page for an outline on what we need to do for the virt-getting-started guide to be able to bring its content to a more comprehensive guide..
(04:53:33 PM) randomuser: ah
(04:54:02 PM) randomuser: call it, erm, "Virt Getting Started Guide Planning" ?
(04:54:12 PM) lnovich: no i mean where as in url
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(04:56:04 PM) randomuser: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virt_Getting_Started_Planning
(04:56:19 PM) randomuser: fp.o/wiki/page_name
(04:56:28 PM) lnovich: ok works for me!
(04:56:30 PM) lnovich: thanks
(04:58:36 PM) smccann: should we create one for the virt deploy guide as well and start collecting ideas there too?
(04:58:45 PM) lnovich: sure
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(05:01:23 PM) smccann: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virt_Deploy_Admin_Planning
(05:01:32 PM) lnovich: nice one smccann!
(05:02:02 PM) smccann: it's my first created wiki page... I wonder if I get a badge for this!
(05:02:14 PM) ***smccann collects badges for motivation
(05:02:14 PM) lnovich: smccann++
(05:02:20 PM) zodbot: lnovich: Karma for smccann changed to 2: https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
(05:02:42 PM) grundblom: Well done!
(05:03:34 PM) smccann: aw shucks... thanks :-)
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(05:04:16 PM) lnovich: ok listen - i have 2 more meetings back to back and need to grab a drink before I go to the meeting room
(05:04:26 PM) lnovich: i will start the wiki page.
(05:04:56 PM) smccann: okay thanks for all the help!
(05:04:59 PM) lnovich: please put your comments in as a different color so i can track them
(05:05:14 PM) lnovich: or mark who it is making the comment /change
(05:06:21 PM) grundblom: Great, thanks lnovich and smccann!
(05:06:38 PM) lnovich: next wed, same bat time same bat channel?
(05:06:56 PM) smccann: sounds good
(05:07:03 PM) grundblom: Sounds like a plan
(05:07:15 PM) ***lnovich waves good bye
* Laura Novich *
* RHCSA (Red Hat Certified System Administrator) *
* Content Author, Platform Virtualization / KVM *
* Customer Content Services (CCS) *
* Red Hat EMEA, Ra'anana Israel *
* Phone: +972 9 7692397 *
* Direct:72397 *
* Fax: +972 9 7692223 *
* Mobile: +972 54 7693489 *
* IRC: lnovich *
In the past when creating a new document that will contain code examples
in C/C++ or Python I always placed the examples in separate files from
the main XML. This way it would be easier to test those examples to make
sure that they work as intended. Being new to the Fedora Docs team I
have looked at some of the current documents and they do not seem to
separate the code from the document itself. So I am wondering if I
should follow that convention or separate the code from the XML like I
have done in the past?
Please provide some guidance.
I got permission from the libvirt team to use a document they started
some years ago but never finished. I took the source as-is, except for
changing the brand to fedora, and compiled it into a PDF. You can review
it by downloading the PDF at
I propose to use and extend this document (using Python instead of C
examples) to produce a document that can be maintained by the Fedora
Docs team as well as the libvirt team. The libvirt team would be willing
to review and supply patches for the new document as needed.
Please take a look at the document and post your comments on the mailing
W. David Ashley
Bug ID: 846864
QA Contact: docs-qa(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Summary: Need a list of toolsets and when they are appropriate
in the virt Getting Started guide
Story Points: ---
Mount Type: ---
Product: Fedora Documentation
The Getting Started Guide needs an overview of all the different toolsets, and
when each would be appropriate. In particular I'm talking about the following:
3) virsh, virt-install
5) Should we point some people to OpenStack?
I will write up a first draft of this, and hand it to a qualified docs person
to edit and correctly place in the guide.
You are receiving this mail because:
You are on the CC list for the bug.
You are kindly invited to the meeting:
Docs Office Hours ( Americas ) on 2015-06-18 from 12:00:00 to 13:00:00 US/Mountain
The meeting will be about:
Office hours for Fedora Docs contributors. Stop in to #fedora-docs for help with writing documentation or just to schmooze with the Docs community. Bring your own cake.