I have finished creating a mockup of the fedora 11 release notes 
This document has a slightly different structure than what has been
used in the past, so any comments or ideas for improvement will be
To make changes to the release notes, still edit the beats  on the
wiki, and then i can convert those changes over to DocBook (using
publican) and update the mockup
Hopefully this slightly different approach will allow us to have a
better idea of what the release notes are going to loook like a bit
eariler on in the development cycle.
 - http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/Release_Notes/
 - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats
Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
> As you asked for: The design looks nice, but I for one hate html with
> fixed width(¹).
Me too. IMHO this is a no-go.
HTML is designed to adapt to the screen size. There are screens with widely
differing widths. Please don't hardcode the width!
> However! In the PDF output, the TOC starts on the first page... and at first
> I was thrown off by it. Would it be possible to have the first page be a
> cover page and the TOC start on page 2?
I am not sure...
all these items were automatically built from docbook xml by publican.
Will have to track down if there is any options in publican that i can
use to change that behaviour.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thorsten Leemhuis" <fedora(a)leemhuis.info>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: Fedora 11 Release Notes Update
> As you asked for: The design looks nice, but I for one hate
> html with fixed width(¹).
The fixed width isn't nearly as obnoxious as having every paragraph centered
in the first section. It also seems a little strange that some sections are
entirely on one html page, while others have a page for each subsection.
Perhaps it will make a little more sense when we have more content.
About a month ago I installed Fedora, my first experience
with Linux. So far I'm really enjoying it. I got so frustrated with
Vista that I wiped it from my hd and installed F10.. I'll NEVER go back
My writing experience is articles and short stories.
So far I've screwed up several times trying to install tarballs
then I discovered the readme files which have helped some. I still
have problems with the right commands. I installed VirtualBox and have
been playing with Ubuntu, PCLinux and Puppy Linux and discovered I like
Fedora much more. Fedora seems very stable, fairly user friendly and is
very flexible in that its limited only by what you want to do with it.
I used to make .bat files in DOS before Windows came out...guess that
kind of dates me, anyway, the command line looks like an old friend.
Learning enough so I can actually help is my biggest worry. Hopefully
someone will be willing be my mentor for a while.
I look forward to meeting everyone.
One Zikula calendar module has a variety of feeds (see http://code.zikula.org/crpcalendar/attachment/wiki/screenshots/list.png) or http://jami.cremonapalloza.org/index.php?module=crpCalendar for a live demo. It might need some template modifications for display, but you could allow users to submit events and so on by logging in with their FAS ID. However, I am sure there are better standalone solutions out there, if you're happy to maintain a separate tool.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fedora-infrastructure-list-bounces(a)redhat.com [mailto:fedora-
> infrastructure-list-bounces(a)redhat.com] On Behalf Of Toshio Kuratomi
> Sent: 06 February 2009 21:33
> To: Fedora Infrastructure
> Subject: Re: Calendaring system?
> Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 18:51 -0700, Clint Savage wrote:
> >> Adam,
> >> Funny thing, I was just mentioning how it would be nice to have a
> >> calendaring solution that would be able to let people pull feeds and
> >> put items on the calendar for Fedora with use in FAS. I think even
> >> though there's currently no solution quite as good as google
> >> (or apple's iCal) in free software, there are alternatives.
> >> Bongo Project - http://bongo-project.org/Main_Page (formerly Hula)
> >> (GPLv2) Bedework - http://www.bedework.org/bedework/ (BSD License)
> >> DAViCal - http://rscds.sourceforge.net/ (GPL)
> >> I'm sure there are others, but I think a self-sustaining calendar
> >> that could integrate with the Fedora Account System (FAS) and make
> >> so that people can create events that could get pushed to a central
> >> calendar which others might subscribe. Something like this would be
> >> awesome and I'd be happy to help you get it started. Maybe one of
> >> the above programs can meet our needs, or maybe we need to look into
> >> something else.
> > Thanks a lot, Clint. Actually one of our QA community guys, Jóhann
> > Guðmundsson, independently suggested Bedework to me and I had a quick
> > look at the web page and it looks nice. It runs in Java but I guess
> > that's no problem if it works on OpenJDK, and it looks like it's nice
> > and self-contained, actively developed, and seems to really work to
> > implement the latest standards, so it looks like a good candidate to
> > I haven't looked at the others you suggested yet, but I will.
> > I'm happy to help out as much as I can - I'm no expert in this field
> > in the initial set up, my only concern is to make sure that this is
> > something the infrastructure group will maintain over a sustained
> > period, I'm just hoping that it won't fall by the wayside and stop
> > working after a few months or wind up with me having to (try and)
> > maintain it or something. But I'm certainly happy to help out in
> > getting it up and running and fit for purpose initially.
> We have kind of a de facto no-Java standard in infrastructure. This is
> partially because none of us have had good experiences running apps in
> java and partially because we have noone with Java programming
> experience to fix things if we need to. If you had some people to give
> to us to work on maintaining the server we might be able to work out
> something similar to how zikula is being run for the docs deploy. But
> that doesn't sound like the case :-(
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
> 02/05/09 11:34:00
I've only partially been following the discussions about the new CMS,
but have a question/idea.
A few of the Fedora News team are interested in helping me to continue
with the creation of a "Fedora Magazine" site, along the lines of Red
Hat Magazine. One of the major issues in realising this over the last
year has been getting the infrastructure set-up, and in a recent
discussion we wondered about sharing in the fruits of your labour (and
even helping a little bit :p) and possibly taking advantage of any CMS
instance you create.
Is this plausible?
11:01 < quaid> <meeting id="Docs team">
11:02 < jjmcd> yo
11:02 < zoglesby> hello
11:03 * jjmcd may be a little slow on the uptake today ... got drops
in his eyes and can't see so good
11:03 -!- daumas [n=mcronenw(a)adsl-65-67-98-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net]
has left #fedora-meeting 
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11:03 -!- itamarjp
[n=itamar(a)189-015-177-219.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has quit
[Remote closed the connection]
11:04 * quaid getting link to agenda, on sec
11:04 < quaid>
11:06 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg ::
F11 schedule confirmation/ratification
11:06 -!- fbijlsma [n=fbijlsma(a)18.104.22.168] has quit [Read error:
110 (Connection timed out)]
11:06 < quaid> if you look at that page above, there are links to the
schedule and poelcat's last post on it
11:07 < quaid>
11:07 < quaid> that's our main one
11:07 * stickster back now
11:07 < quaid> anyone had a chance to look at that before?
11:07 < stickster> quaid: This one might help too:
11:08 < stickster>
11:08 < stickster> Shows lining up of Docs w/L10n.
11:08 < stickster> I sent poelcat a comment or two about that one IIRC
11:08 < quaid> wazzat?
11:09 < jjmcd> What precisely is "String freeze"?
11:09 < stickster> I think it was a clarification of how the item was
stated on one line.
11:09 < quaid> jjmcd: it is
11:09 < stickster> jjmcd: The point beyond which strings are not
11:09 -!- itamarjp
11:09 < stickster> jjmcd: For software, that means no further changes
to dialog text, etc. that would make more work for translators.
11:10 < jjmcd> aha
11:10 < stickster> jjmcd: That way, starting with the string freeze,
they are working with set-in-stone POTs for everything
11:10 < stickster> jjmcd: *occasionally* they will change, but
violating the string freeze has to be requested from the L10n, or
at least announced, and justified
11:10 < quaid> same for content
11:11 < quaid> so on our schedule, a "Translation Deadline" is the
deadline for the l10n team to finish trans
11:11 * ke4qqq is late
11:11 < quaid> where a string freeze is our deadline for getting
content finished for l10n to start on
11:11 -!- kgs [n=kgs(a)c-69-254-162-212.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined
11:11 < jjmcd> OK, so basically, L10n focuses on translating software
for beta, docs for release
11:12 < quaid> for preview and final release
11:12 * quaid confirms that
11:12 -!- jwb [n=jwboyer@fedora/jwb] has quit [Read error: 104
(Connection reset by peer)]
11:12 < jjmcd> yah, didn't scroll all the way down to previes
11:12 < quaid> that's actually where it gets confusing
11:12 -!- jwb [n=jwboyer@fedora/jwb] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:12 < quaid> the time between beta and preview is so tight ...
11:13 -!- lfoppiano [n=lfoppian@fedora/lfoppiano] has joined
11:14 -!- warren [n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:14 < quaid> yeah, it looks like 4-14 is the trans deadline for the
release notes, and we build it on 4-21
11:14 < jjmcd> seems like for F10 we had like 3 betas
11:16 < quaid> ok, I don't think I see anything that bothers me
11:16 < quaid> what other clarifications can we provide?
11:18 * stickster waves to ke4qqq
11:18 < quaid> we should hear from Sparks (and ke4qqq !) before
11:18 < quaid> we can push this to later via IRC when they are
11:19 < jjmcd> and ryanlerch
11:19 < quaid> that is, I think ke4qqq was there and jsmith certainly
was when we made the schedule
11:19 < quaid> yeah, good point
11:19 < quaid> how about this
11:19 < stickster> Right
11:19 < quaid> I'll take the task of talking with everyone today
11:19 < stickster> We should just ask Sparks to stamp it (if agreed)
and communicate with Poelstra
11:19 * ke4qqq waves back at stickster
11:19 * stickster just totally resaid what everyone else just said.
11:19 < quaid> and we'll get questions or approval or whatever worked
out by ~0100 UTC Th.
11:20 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg ::
11:20 < quaid> good timing ke4qqq
11:20 < ke4qqq> lol
11:20 < ke4qqq> I suppose
11:20 < jjmcd> Does ryanlerch even come online by then? Thats only la
few hours from now
11:21 < ke4qqq> he's got almost 4 hours
11:21 * jjmcd shouldn't have told the optometrist "oh yeah, we can do
the dilation thing this year"
11:21 < quaid> jjmcd: yeah, unless he sleeps in, six hours from now is
11:22 < quaid> 0100 isn't a hard deadline, that's roughly COB on PST.
11:22 < jjmcd> K, I knew I've been seeing him in tghe evening, but
haven't been watching the clock that close
11:22 -!- kulll [n=kulll(a)22.214.171.124] has quit [Read error: 60
(Operation timed out)]
11:22 -!- danielsmw [n=danielsm(a)user-24-214-179-165.knology.net] has
11:22 < ke4qqq> anyway - CMS - so 1.1.1 zikula came out, and they are
actually doing a dedicated server build (as opposed to shared
hosting) to accommodate some of my complaints, but they'll have
that available to everyone
11:23 -!- kulll [n=kulll(a)126.96.36.199] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:23 < ke4qqq> rpm wise - I merely have to get the config file
squared away to deal with all of the changes I requested that they
made - otherwise it looks fine. I hopefully will have something
up in a few days, and plan to dedicate the weekend to working
on doing final tweaking
11:23 * quaid doesn't think Infra knew they'd get such a good vetting
from Docs :)
11:24 < ke4qqq> yeah I thought the 16 .htaccess files was a bit
11:24 < ke4qqq> I mean I see the need, but it's drastically slower
11:25 < ke4qqq> so we'll have a dedicated .conf file to handle all of
11:25 < ke4qqq> anyway that's just the base package
11:25 < ke4qqq> we also have IIRC 8 modules
11:26 < ke4qqq> that we'll need to package I think
11:27 < quaid> are the Zikula folks interested in co-maintaining?
11:27 < ke4qqq> yes one of the zikula guys is working on the modules
11:27 * quaid is on the watch for packages Docs relies upon that only
have a single maintainer :)
11:27 < quaid> kewl
11:27 < stickster> :-)
11:28 < ke4qqq> and they actually did the first push on the core
package rpm, just some packaging guidelines that needed to be
11:28 * mmcgrath wonders if his notes to the list made sense about
11:29 < ke4qqq> mmcgrath: they did, but honestly I wasn't aware that
either of the test sites were authing yet, just that we had
11:30 * ke4qqq notes that's another module that we'll have to build a
package for - as soon as we get source
11:31 < ke4qqq> and in response to your most recent message - IIRC
there is already a cmsadmin group in fas now
11:31 < ke4qqq> sparks requested it last week
11:31 < mmcgrath> k, I'll re-create it in the test system
11:32 -!- warren [n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren] has joined
11:33 < stickster> mmcgrath: I had to read between the lines a little
-- what you meant is that we shouldn't be sending usernames and
passphrases to a system that's not managed by the Fedora
Infrastructure team, right?
11:33 < stickster> i.e. it's not a problem with Zikula or anyone else
in particular, more just a general best practice.
11:33 -!- itbegins
[n=itbegins(a)nat-studcudn-172-24-62-0.fitz.cam.ac.uk] has joined
11:34 < itbegins> sorry to be so late, caught up in traffic much worse
than I expected
11:34 < mmcgrath> stickster: correct.
11:34 < itbegins> I've got no log, anything on the CMS you'd like me
11:34 < mmcgrath> Nothing against the zikula guys, just a policy we
have is all. We generally have a test infrastructure up.
11:34 < quaid> itbegins: no worries; there'll be an IRC log afterward;
ke4qqq just gave us a status of packaging and such for CMS
11:35 < mmcgrath> so we threw the test account system up so they can
auth against that until we're on the publictest servers, but
everything should be golden again when they change from authing
against admin.fp.o to authing against pt15 is all.
11:35 < mmcgrath> we've done this before in the past.
11:35 < mmcgrath> itbegins: did you get my messages to fedora-docs
11:35 < ke4qqq> mmcgrath: will we have to revert the ssl cert
11:35 * ke4qqq assumes so
11:35 < ke4qqq> at least for client
11:35 < itbegins> mmcgrath: Just read them, that's fine and perfectly
11:36 < mmcgrath> ssl cert verification?
11:36 < mmcgrath> oh oh.
11:36 < mmcgrath> ke4qqq: yah, just for test though. Thats why they
were there :)
11:36 < ke4qqq> ok - shouldn't be a problem
11:37 < mmcgrath> itbegins: kew, I'm around all afternoon if you need
help with the account system. The one at publictest15 we can do
whatever you want to with as far as creating and removing users
and test groups. go nuts!
11:37 < mmcgrath> :)
11:37 < ke4qqq> should be fun to play with regardless
11:37 < itbegins> mmcgrath: I've pretty much got it working, the only
thing I think remains is syncing with FAS groups. I plan to do
that by creating groups with the same name in the CMS and just
syncing on login
11:37 < mmcgrath> cool
11:38 < itbegins> There's also a fallback to the normal Zikula auth
should FAS crash for any reason
11:38 < mmcgrath> itbegins: after the meeting come ping me in
#fedora-admin and I'll make sure the group and your test account
are all setup properly.
11:39 < itbegins> mmcgrath: Ok, thanks. I'd also like that chat about
11:39 < mmcgrath> sure thing
11:39 -!- J5 [n=quintice@nat/redhat/x-f71c8f9d3cfd209a] has quit
[Connection timed out]
11:39 < itbegins> Anything else people want to know about the CMS?
11:40 -!- J5 [n=quintice(a)188.8.131.52] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:41 < quaid> ok, we can move on then
11:41 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa@fedora/geroldka] has joined
11:42 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg ::
11:42 < quaid> jjmcd who cannot see ... have anything to add?
11:42 < jjmcd> No, sounds good to me
11:42 * quaid knows Alpha notes are out, ryanlerch was looking at
converting to DocBook but don't know if he wanted to follow through
with publishing them
11:43 * ke4qqq thought he had publicanized them already
11:43 < jjmcd> ryanlerch would like to do a routine wiki->DocBook
11:43 < quaid> sure
11:43 -!- zcat [n=zcat@fedora/zcat] has quit 
11:43 < quaid> but he just ran in to the very reason we stopped :)
11:43 < ke4qqq> which is?
11:43 < quaid> it's "done" but not published
11:43 < ke4qqq> ahhh ok
11:43 < quaid> is it in git?
11:43 < quaid> can I go publish it right now?
11:44 -!- zcat [n=zcat@fedora/zcat] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:44 < quaid> cf. the wiki which is there, done, published, let's
11:44 < quaid> we all just need to be aware that each of these does
11:45 < stickster> quaid: So what you're saying...
11:45 * jjmcd sees some regression test value in a routine build,
esp. if automated
11:45 < stickster> is that we can publish on the wiki instantly,
11:45 * stickster scratches head.
11:45 < quaid> cannot yet on docs.fp.org, yes
11:46 < stickster> Ah, right.
11:46 < stickster> So we can't just publish the Publican output HTML
11:46 < stickster> Because... style sheets will be wrong?
11:46 < quaid> I was more drawing the lines between the dots to
explain what wasn't so obvious to people, i.e., why we had moved to
the wiki for Alpha/Beta notes in the past.
11:46 < stickster> Or is it because we're still converting things to
PHP and stuff gets stripped in the back and forth?
11:46 < quaid> we can just publish them
11:47 < quaid> sorry, I'm not being obvious, am I?
11:47 < itbegins> stickster: Part of the stuff I'm getting done for
the CMS is a pull-from-source-and-publish bash script
11:47 < stickster> quaid: No, and we should be.
11:47 < quaid> until the desire to Publicanize them came about, the
task was done.
11:47 < itbegins> stickster: Which you'll be able to access through
the CMS admin section.
11:47 < quaid> once that desire took hold, the task was undone and we
still don't have notes published for Alpha.
11:47 < quaid> nor a method for e.g. Jesse to add last minute
information and not have to wait 24 hours for all the people and
pieces to align.
11:48 -!- adamw [n=AdamW@redhat/adamw] has left #fedora-meeting
11:48 < jjmcd> I gotta admit, I don't see the value for alpha
11:48 < stickster> Ah, there's the rub. If there's no change freeze in
place significantly before release day, this gets almost impossible
11:48 < quaid> I get that we like the idea of prettier notes, but I
think it's too late for Alpha, maybe do it for Beta.
11:49 < jjmcd> But I see enormous value in a routine, automatic
DocBook version of what is currently in the wiki, so that when we
finally do make the published version, there are no surprises.
11:49 < stickster> quaid: Then I would say we should add a task to the
Docs schedule which is a one-sheet content freeze.
11:49 < quaid> but I'm not the hammer no more to say, "Forget about
it," and I don't want to be discouraging where I see challenges due
11:49 < stickster> (as well as a conversion and publication task for
the Beta relnotes one-sheet)
11:50 < stickster> Sparks should probably address this, then.
11:50 < quaid> well ... if the release notes team thinks
Publican-based notes are more important than up-to-date information
and ease of publishing, then yes, they should do that.
11:50 < quaid> at some point, those converge and isn't an either/or
11:50 < quaid> until then ... one has to reign.
11:50 < stickster> quaid: Just to be clear, I recall why we wanted to
do this only for Preview and Final.
11:51 < quaid> yeah, we'll leave this for ryan and sparks to hash out.
11:51 < jjmcd> Right answer
11:51 < quaid> stickster: yeah, I know :)
11:51 < stickster> But having it out on the table openly is important
so the new folks can weigh it too.
11:52 < jjmcd> I think ryanlerch envisions wiki->DocBook on the
crontab, and if he can actually do that I think its great
11:52 < jjmcd> but for the one pagers, I personally don't see the
11:52 < quaid> stickster: yeah, was trying to do that yesterday but
didn't get there I reckon.
11:52 < quaid> ok, I've noted it in the summary
11:53 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg ::
Installation Guide status
11:53 < quaid> ke4qqq: have you begun to think about this?
11:53 < ke4qqq> ooh, me again
11:53 -!- cassmodiah [n=cass@fedora/cassmodiah] has joined
11:53 < ke4qqq> yes - and I am delinquent in seeking help
11:53 < quaid> we can talk with jlaska/adamw about IG testing again
11:53 < ke4qqq> I need to put a call out for writers
11:54 < ke4qqq> it looks like eawest may not be able to join us this
time since she is rapidly becoming great with child
11:54 < stickster> I always liked the term "gravid"
11:54 < ke4qqq> so I need to find an editor as well.
11:55 < ke4qqq> that or I'll be writing a lot and begging one of you
11:55 < ke4qqq> oh, gravid is a great term
11:55 < ke4qqq> but we have a week or two to start writing
11:56 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Baconz@fedora/sonarguy] has quit ["Xchat
destroyed by Operating System"]
11:56 < ke4qqq> I did change the owner in the owners list so stickster
doesn't get besieged with tickets
11:56 -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia(a)p57A2E336.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined
11:56 < quaid> yay
11:56 < stickster> w00t
11:57 < ke4qqq> I almost did the same for danielsmw and the ug, but
wanted to make sure he had a bz account first
11:57 < quaid> ke4qqq: I'll be floating a bit more this time, so I'll
be able to backfill.
11:57 * stickster notes mmcgrath looking for group name info
on-list. Who's on the hook for that?
11:57 < ke4qqq> cool
11:57 < ke4qqq> we provided it in channel
11:57 < stickster> Oh sweet, I'm behind. That's always good.
11:58 < stickster> It means things are moving on well without me and I
can, y'know, take a nap instead.
11:58 < ke4qqq> that's what fearless project leaders are supposed to
11:58 < stickster> That and eat peeled grapes, exactly.
11:58 < jjmcd> If you were napping then you wouldnt have anything to
11:58 -!- k0k [n=k0k@fedora/k0k] has quit ["Saliendo"]
11:58 < stickster> At least, that's what I keep telling my wife.
11:59 < quaid> ok, we are about out of time
11:59 -!- mcepl
11:59 < quaid> we'll do meeting time change on list
11:59 < quaid> the other guides ... well, how about discuss those on
11:59 < quaid> anthing else in the waning minute?
11:59 * quaid moving so fast he's levng ltrs behnd
12:00 -!- balor [n=balor(a)gimili.plus.com] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:00 * stickster +1
12:00 * stickster then moves to adjourn
12:00 < quaid> rock on
12:00 * quaid counts
12:00 < quaid> 5
12:00 < quaid> 4
12:00 < quaid> 3
12:00 < quaid> 2
12:00 < quaid> 1
12:00 < quaid> </meeting>
Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener