@pvalena
> I can push the fix (or revert) on Tue afternoon, if you manage to have it till then. I'm afraid I'll be unavailable afterwards for 1.5w.Stuff should not be removed based on opinions of one person who has nothing to do with the technology in question, nor has any deciding weight in the project (i.e. is not council/committee.) They can merely bring it up for discussion.
@ngompa13
> First, would you please not top-post? It makes it tricky to identify what you're responding to.First, would you please not tell people what to do, what to write, and what to *censor?*I top-post when there is nothing to reply, or when I'm replying to everything instead of a single sentence. It is my problem how do I reply, where I believe that it's very clear and readable. Funny enough I could say that you should reply better too, cause your emails are dropping the whole history.
> I've been watching the site gradually lose focus on this for a while now, and I've been generally displeased about it. However, beyond mentioning it a few times on IRC, I've not made too much fuss about it, as we've generally been pointing to free and open source solutions so far. However, this is the first time I've noticed that we've strayed so far that we recommended a non-free solution to potential developers using Fedora.>> I've become increasingly disappointed with the way things have been evolving in Fedora as a whole, but I hoped we wouldn't lose sight of the fact that our distribution exists to promote free and open source software as well as free culture, and the tools to enable the further development of those things.>> If JetBrains Rider is the only decent tool right now, then the focus should be improving the Free tools so they can compete. What the heck has happened? I remember the days when Red Hatters stepped up to fill these voids when they showed up. We were in a similar situation with Java years ago, and Red Hatters and other members of the community stepped up and fixed it with the IcedTea project. What makes C# so different that no one has stepped up to bat to make a first-class FOSS solution for C# developers?>> Radka, it's clear you're very passionate about .NET development. But I don't know anything about any efforts to make the C# world better integrated with the FOSS world, similar to what happened to make Java better years ago. If there is something going on, it's really well-hidden.So last year of my 12h/day or more of work is not stepping up. Okay.
There are many people in Red Hat spending their free time on Fedora to get all the new netcore technologies into Fedora - guess who's working on Eclipse.
I would like to highlight something here:
"Fedora Developer Portal is a place *for open-source developers,* providing information about tools, technology and other features that are packaged in Fedora."- For Developers who write open-source stuff. It does not mean that the "tools, technology and other features" have to be open-source. "Packaged in Fedora" I read as "stuff that you can very easily use on Fedora." Rider is a single tarball that works out of the box. Although Eclipse may be packaged in Fedora, it's not easy to get it to work with netcore and even when you do, you will experience a lot of issues. The best progress we've made is teaching Microsoft how to open source and how to licenses, so we can actually claim that netcore is open source. VSCode may have open source but the binary is using different license for example. AND we're still struggling with these issues.
I should also point out that the order of those things on the page was changed a few weeks ago, when we discovered an issue that makes Eclipse and VSCode useless, making Rider the only properly working IDE.
I will *not* give in to FLOSS-Extremism[1] and I will *not* censor any information from the user. If JetBrains Rider is the best IDE, I will tell the whole world about it without any bias, while merely pointing out that it's not open source. The developer portal page was well written pointing out that fact, while ordering the IDE's by unbiased usefulness score. Removing Rider from the developer page is effectively undoing months of my work in the bigger picture of the whole fedoraloves.net effort.
Others have my words, the info given, feel free to weight pro's and con's of this censorship and decide. I do not want to participate in this thread as I am very invested into the topic and my words would not be kind.[1] FLOSS-Extremism is pushing "free" while sacrificing the "friends features first" and the mission statement "for developers."