Fonts or whatever don't seem to be as nice or full looking as other releases (F14 or below).
When in a program (Evolution for example), it seems this is the only one I see in the task window/panel or whatever up top. I can't tell Firefox or anything is running, unleses I click on the Activities link or control tab.
When adding a background image, that little plus/negative sign at the bottom isn't too inviting to use. Had to look at that program couple times to understand/see them at the bottom. Could be couple bigger buttons or something.
How the hell do you add something to be started up when your profile starts? Such as devilspie or whatever? I used to add this to startup programs.
I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
Hi,
2011/2/27 Mike Chambers mike@miketc.net:
Fonts or whatever don't seem to be as nice or full looking as other releases (F14 or below).
When in a program (Evolution for example), it seems this is the only one I see in the task window/panel or whatever up top. I can't tell Firefox or anything is running, unleses I click on the Activities link or control tab.
When adding a background image, that little plus/negative sign at the bottom isn't too inviting to use. Had to look at that program couple times to understand/see them at the bottom. Could be couple bigger buttons or something.
How the hell do you add something to be started up when your profile starts? Such as devilspie or whatever? I used to add this to startup programs.
I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
-- Mike Chambers Madisonville, KY
"The best town on Earth!"
-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Have you tried to update to the latest branch version? Today I updated system and Gnome doesn't start anymore. Anyone else have this problem?
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 16:06 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
Have you tried to update to the latest branch version? Today I updated system and Gnome doesn't start anymore. Anyone else have this problem?
Yep, try removing the at-spi2* packages (it only removes bout 5 total or so) and see if that works for you.
2011/2/27 Mike Chambers mike@miketc.net:
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 16:06 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
Have you tried to update to the latest branch version? Today I updated system and Gnome doesn't start anymore. Anyone else have this problem?
Yep, try removing the at-spi2* packages (it only removes bout 5 total or so) and see if that works for you.
at-spi2 is not installed on my system. Out of curiosity, I removed at-spi* packages and now GDM behaves funny.
I'll have to connect the eth cable and rollback my latest system sabotage :)
-- Mike Chambers Madisonville, KY
"The best town on Earth!"
-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
2011/2/27 Michał Piotrowski:
Have you tried to update to the latest branch version? Today I updated system and Gnome doesn't start anymore. Anyone else have this problem?
You have to downgrade your system to
accountsservice-libs-0.6.3-3.fc15 accountsservice-0.6.3-3.fc15 libcanberra-0.27-1.fc15 libcanberra-gtk2-0.27-1.fc15 libcanberra-gtk3-0.27-1.fc15
Good luck, ~C.
2011/2/27 Christoph Frieben christoph.frieben@googlemail.com:
2011/2/27 Michał Piotrowski:
Have you tried to update to the latest branch version? Today I updated system and Gnome doesn't start anymore. Anyone else have this problem?
You have to downgrade your system to
Thanks for the tip, I'll try it later
accountsservice-libs-0.6.3-3.fc15 accountsservice-0.6.3-3.fc15 libcanberra-0.27-1.fc15 libcanberra-gtk2-0.27-1.fc15 libcanberra-gtk3-0.27-1.fc15
Good luck, ~C.
devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
On Sun, 27.02.11 16:37, Christoph Frieben (christoph.frieben@googlemail.com) wrote:
2011/2/27 Michał Piotrowski:
Have you tried to update to the latest branch version? Today I updated system and Gnome doesn't start anymore. Anyone else have this problem?
You have to downgrade your system to
accountsservice-libs-0.6.3-3.fc15 accountsservice-0.6.3-3.fc15 libcanberra-0.27-1.fc15 libcanberra-gtk2-0.27-1.fc15 libcanberra-gtk3-0.27-1.fc15
libcanberra? What makes you think lc is involved here?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=680605 ← that doesn't really suggest any libcanberra involvement.
Lennart
One impression - this version will be really feature rich :) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FeatureList
I wonder just why this feature https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/CloudFS fell from the list?
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:52:36 +0100 Michał Piotrowski mkkp4x4@gmail.com wrote:
One impression - this version will be really feature rich :) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FeatureList
I wonder just why this feature https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/CloudFS fell from the list?
See https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/557
Basically it wasn't quite polished enough to tout as a feature yet. It will hopefully be in f16 and in much better shape. ;)
kevin
2011/2/27 Kevin Fenzi kevin@scrye.com:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:52:36 +0100 Michał Piotrowski mkkp4x4@gmail.com wrote:
One impression - this version will be really feature rich :) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FeatureList
I wonder just why this feature https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/CloudFS fell from the list?
See https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/557
Basically it wasn't quite polished enough to tout as a feature yet. It will hopefully be in f16 and in much better shape. ;)
Thanks for the info. I'll have to arm myself with patience and wait for the F16 then :)
kevin
-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
2011/2/27 Lennart Poettering:
libcanberra? What makes you think lc is involved here?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=680605 ← that doesn't really suggest any libcanberra involvement.
You are correct, the cited workaround from bug 680605 was partially superfluous: downgrading - accountsservice-libs-0.6.3-3.fc15 - accountsservice-0.6.3-3.fc15 alone already solves the issue for me. The reporter of bug 680605 should change the component from libcanberra to accountsservice then .. ~C
On Sun, 27.02.11 19:00, Christoph Frieben (christoph.frieben@googlemail.com) wrote:
2011/2/27 Lennart Poettering:
libcanberra? What makes you think lc is involved here?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=680605 ← that doesn't really suggest any libcanberra involvement.
You are correct, the cited workaround from bug 680605 was partially superfluous: downgrading
- accountsservice-libs-0.6.3-3.fc15
- accountsservice-0.6.3-3.fc15
alone already solves the issue for me. The reporter of bug 680605 should change the component from libcanberra to accountsservice then .. ~C
I have already reassigned it to gdm. The backtrace was generated in gdm-simple-chooser code and hence should probably be fixed in gdm.
Lennart
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Lennart Poettering mzerqung@0pointer.de wrote:
I have already reassigned it to gdm. The backtrace was generated in gdm-simple-chooser code and hence should probably be fixed in gdm.
Guten tag, Lennart.
Please excuse me --- if intolerably poor netiquette, please hit DELETE now.
A n00b to Fedora (well, since F3 days, now testing F15 Alpha 2), I want to file with BugZilla and notice you are involved with some of the packages involved.
The Create User screen seems to be the first place I notice an unexpected result (backspacing in the password field yields an unexpected result), but I can't seem to decide between filing against perhaps firstboot or systemd or NetworkManager. Short a backtrace, how does one go about getting it right so as not to waste developer's time?
Further, interesting (to me) results are below the sig and I would like your guidance on which package to file against.
service also fails against sshd in this situation, hanging when 'service sshd status' is invoked.
kind regards/vaden@texoma.net
Sat Feb 26 23:48:18 CST 2011 26 Feb 23:48:47 ntpdate[1244]: adjust time server 204.123.2.5 offset -0.006697 sec 26 Feb 23:49:26 ntpdate[1247]: adjust time server 206.222.28.90 offset 0.003202 sec 26 Feb 23:49:38 ntpdate[1249]: adjust time server 173.45.238.221 offset 0.008680 sec 26 Feb 23:49:50 ntpdate[1251]: adjust time server 72.14.179.211 offset 0.006127 sec 26 Feb 23:50:01 ntpdate[1253]: adjust time server 69.50.219.51 offset -0.008430 sec root 1086 0.0 0.1 5284 1092 tty1 S+ 23:27 0:00 sh -c /sbin/service ntpd start > /dev/null root 1087 0.0 0.1 5416 1564 tty1 S+ 23:27 0:00 /bin/sh /sbin/service ntpd start root 1095 0.0 0.1 5420 1452 tty1 S+ 23:27 0:00 /bin/bash /etc/init.d/ntpd start root 1101 0.0 0.0 2736 864 tty1 S+ 23:27 0:00 /bin/systemctl start ntpd.service root 1181 0.0 0.1 5284 1092 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 sh -c /sbin/service ntpd status > /dev/null root 1182 0.0 0.1 5416 1560 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 /bin/sh /sbin/service ntpd status root 1190 0.0 0.1 5416 1452 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 /bin/bash /etc/init.d/ntpd status root 1196 0.0 0.0 2736 644 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 systemctl status ntpd.service root 1198 0.0 0.1 5284 1088 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 sh -c /sbin/service ntpd status > /dev/null root 1199 0.0 0.1 5416 1568 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 /bin/sh /sbin/service ntpd status root 1207 0.0 0.1 5416 1456 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 /bin/bash /etc/init.d/ntpd status root 1213 0.0 0.0 2736 640 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 systemctl status ntpd.service vaden 1255 0.0 0.0 4452 756 tty2 S+ 23:50 0:00 grep --color=auto ntp Sat Feb 26 23:50:28 CST 2011
On Sun, 27.02.11 13:00, Larry Vaden (vaden@texoma.net) wrote:
A n00b to Fedora (well, since F3 days, now testing F15 Alpha 2), I want to file with BugZilla and notice you are involved with some of the packages involved.
Please direct questions like this to the fedora test list or a similar mailing list, not to fedora-devel or me.
The Create User screen seems to be the first place I notice an unexpected result (backspacing in the password field yields an unexpected result), but I can't seem to decide between filing against perhaps firstboot or systemd or NetworkManager. Short a backtrace, how does one go about getting it right so as not to waste developer's time?
File a bug against anaconda, please.
Further, interesting (to me) results are below the sig and I would like your guidance on which package to file against.
Uh? Not sure I am following.
Lennart
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 01:00:19PM -0600, Larry Vaden wrote:
Further, interesting (to me) results are below the sig and I would like your guidance on which package to file against.
What is happening here? Did you make any changes in the ntpdate sysconfig file or the systemd unit file?
If the service is misbehaving and runs ntpdate in a loop, that will get the fedora pool.ntp.org vendor zone blocked quickly.
Sat Feb 26 23:48:18 CST 2011 26 Feb 23:48:47 ntpdate[1244]: adjust time server 204.123.2.5 offset -0.006697 sec 26 Feb 23:49:26 ntpdate[1247]: adjust time server 206.222.28.90 offset 0.003202 sec 26 Feb 23:49:38 ntpdate[1249]: adjust time server 173.45.238.221 offset 0.008680 sec 26 Feb 23:49:50 ntpdate[1251]: adjust time server 72.14.179.211 offset 0.006127 sec 26 Feb 23:50:01 ntpdate[1253]: adjust time server 69.50.219.51 offset -0.008430 sec root 1086 0.0 0.1 5284 1092 tty1 S+ 23:27 0:00 sh -c /sbin/service ntpd start > /dev/null root 1087 0.0 0.1 5416 1564 tty1 S+ 23:27 0:00 /bin/sh /sbin/service ntpd start root 1095 0.0 0.1 5420 1452 tty1 S+ 23:27 0:00 /bin/bash /etc/init.d/ntpd start root 1101 0.0 0.0 2736 864 tty1 S+ 23:27 0:00 /bin/systemctl start ntpd.service root 1181 0.0 0.1 5284 1092 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 sh -c /sbin/service ntpd status > /dev/null root 1182 0.0 0.1 5416 1560 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 /bin/sh /sbin/service ntpd status root 1190 0.0 0.1 5416 1452 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 /bin/bash /etc/init.d/ntpd status root 1196 0.0 0.0 2736 644 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 systemctl status ntpd.service root 1198 0.0 0.1 5284 1088 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 sh -c /sbin/service ntpd status > /dev/null root 1199 0.0 0.1 5416 1568 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 /bin/sh /sbin/service ntpd status root 1207 0.0 0.1 5416 1456 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 /bin/bash /etc/init.d/ntpd status root 1213 0.0 0.0 2736 640 tty1 S+ 23:42 0:00 systemctl status ntpd.service vaden 1255 0.0 0.0 4452 756 tty2 S+ 23:50 0:00 grep --color=auto ntp Sat Feb 26 23:50:28 CST 2011
On 02/27/2011 03:55 PM, Mike Chambers wrote:
Fonts or whatever don't seem to be as nice or full looking as other releases (F14 or below).
Yes the font rendering makes applications look significantly more ugly then under F14. That was the first thing I noticed after starting Firefox.
When in a program (Evolution for example), it seems this is the only one I see in the task window/panel or whatever up top. I can't tell Firefox or anything is running, unleses I click on the Activities link or control tab.
I think this is sort of intentional. If I understand the way this is supposed to work correctly then you are not supposed to care if Firefox is already running but instead simply click on it in your favorites and if an instance is already running it will be brought into focus or a new instance is started. Also you don't need to click on "Activities" but can simply move the mouse to the upper left corner to open the favorites. While this takes some getting used to I think it makes sense. Simply "throw" you mouse into the upper left corner and then click on Firefox.
When adding a background image, that little plus/negative sign at the bottom isn't too inviting to use. Had to look at that program couple times to understand/see them at the bottom. Could be couple bigger buttons or something.
How the hell do you add something to be started up when your profile starts? Such as devilspie or whatever? I used to add this to startup programs.
I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
I think the general problem here is that with the advent of tablet and other touchscreen driven devices the whole hover mechanic just doesn't work at all anymore. On the other hand I noticed that when I move the mouse over an icon at the bottom right corner the icon slides to the side and reveal a label for that icon. So there the hover concept seems to be still alive. This is a problem though as apparently you cannot click that label: 1. Update icon appears 2. You want to click on it and move the mouse over it 3. The icon moves away from your pointer revealing the label 4. Clicking no longer works since the label is not clickable 5. You move the mouse over to the new icon position 6. If you overshoot the icon again slides away from you pointer => continue at 2. 7. If you don't overshoot you are finally able to do what you wanted to do in the first place: click that icon.
Regards, Dennis
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 16:20 +0100, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
On 02/27/2011 03:55 PM, Mike Chambers wrote:
When in a program (Evolution for example), it seems this is the only one I see in the task window/panel or whatever up top. I can't tell Firefox or anything is running, unleses I click on the Activities link or control tab.
I think this is sort of intentional. If I understand the way this is supposed to work correctly then you are not supposed to care if Firefox is already running but instead simply click on it in your favorites and if an instance is already running it will be brought into focus or a new instance is started. Also you don't need to click on "Activities" but can simply move the mouse to the upper left corner to open the favorites. While this takes some getting used to I think it makes sense. Simply "throw" you mouse into the upper left corner and then click on Firefox.
OK, got the corner thing with the mouse, seems to work. Still hate it. Seems more work to do...move mouse, click on icon, then start. Instead of just going to workspace/icon or whatever and clicking on it.
I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
I think the general problem here is that with the advent of tablet and other touchscreen driven devices the whole hover mechanic just doesn't work at all anymore. On the other hand I noticed that when I move the mouse over an icon at the bottom right corner the icon slides to the side and reveal a label for that icon. So there the hover concept seems to be still alive. This is a problem though as apparently you cannot click that label:
- Update icon appears
- You want to click on it and move the mouse over it
- The icon moves away from your pointer revealing the label
- Clicking no longer works since the label is not clickable
- You move the mouse over to the new icon position
- If you overshoot the icon again slides away from you pointer => continue
at 2. 7. If you don't overshoot you are finally able to do what you wanted to do in the first place: click that icon.
Yep, experienced same thing with the bottom right icons. But as you said, hypocritical when can't do it at the top over time/date/etc..but in the bottom it's set to, yet have to hit it at right spot for it to work.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Mike Chambers mike@miketc.net wrote:
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 16:20 +0100, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
On 02/27/2011 03:55 PM, Mike Chambers wrote:
When in a program (Evolution for example), it seems this is the only one I see in the task window/panel or whatever up top. I can't tell Firefox or anything is running, unleses I click on the Activities link or control tab.
I think this is sort of intentional. If I understand the way this is supposed to work correctly then you are not supposed to care if Firefox is already running but instead simply click on it in your favorites and if an instance is already running it will be brought into focus or a new instance is started. Also you don't need to click on "Activities" but can simply move the mouse to the upper left corner to open the favorites. While this takes some getting used to I think it makes sense. Simply "throw" you mouse into the upper left corner and then click on Firefox.
OK, got the corner thing with the mouse, seems to work. Still hate it. Seems more work to do...move mouse, click on icon, then start. Instead of just going to workspace/icon or whatever and clicking on it.
Give it some time, it is different than what you are used to, after lets say a week it will feel natural to you (up to the point that you will throw your mouse into the upper left corner on other OSes ;) ).
I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
I think the general problem here is that with the advent of tablet and other touchscreen driven devices the whole hover mechanic just doesn't work at all anymore. On the other hand I noticed that when I move the mouse over an icon at the bottom right corner the icon slides to the side and reveal a label for that icon. So there the hover concept seems to be still alive. This is a problem though as apparently you cannot click that label:
- Update icon appears
- You want to click on it and move the mouse over it
- The icon moves away from your pointer revealing the label
- Clicking no longer works since the label is not clickable
- You move the mouse over to the new icon position
- If you overshoot the icon again slides away from you pointer => continue
at 2. 7. If you don't overshoot you are finally able to do what you wanted to do in the first place: click that icon.
This is a bug see: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636930
Yep, experienced same thing with the bottom right icons. But as you said, hypocritical when can't do it at the top over time/date/etc..but in the bottom it's set to, yet have to hit it at right spot for it to work.
It is not hypocritical as *you* made up the reason for the tooltips not being there (hover is used in a lot of different places in the shell).
On 02/27/2011 06:36 PM, drago01 wrote:
I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
I think the general problem here is that with the advent of tablet and other touchscreen driven devices the whole hover mechanic just doesn't work at all anymore. On the other hand I noticed that when I move the mouse over an icon at the bottom right corner the icon slides to the side and reveal a label for that icon. So there the hover concept seems to be still alive. This is a problem though as apparently you cannot click that label:
- Update icon appears
- You want to click on it and move the mouse over it
- The icon moves away from your pointer revealing the label
- Clicking no longer works since the label is not clickable
- You move the mouse over to the new icon position
- If you overshoot the icon again slides away from you pointer => continue
at 2. 7. If you don't overshoot you are finally able to do what you wanted to do in the first place: click that icon.
This is a bug see: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636930
This bug only seems to address the overshooting issue but not the real problem of the icon moving away from you mouse pointer. If the appearing label or summary notification would be considered part of the clickable area for the icon this would fix the problem easily and make the overshooting issue disappear since you no longer have to move the pointer to the icon (for a second time).
Regards, Dennis
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 3:26 AM, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn dennisml@conversis.de wrote:
On 02/27/2011 06:36 PM, drago01 wrote:
I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
I think the general problem here is that with the advent of tablet and other touchscreen driven devices the whole hover mechanic just doesn't work at all anymore. On the other hand I noticed that when I move the mouse over an icon at the bottom right corner the icon slides to the side and reveal a label for that icon. So there the hover concept seems to be still alive. This is a problem though as apparently you cannot click that label:
- Update icon appears
- You want to click on it and move the mouse over it
- The icon moves away from your pointer revealing the label
- Clicking no longer works since the label is not clickable
- You move the mouse over to the new icon position
- If you overshoot the icon again slides away from you pointer => continue
at 2. 7. If you don't overshoot you are finally able to do what you wanted to do in the first place: click that icon.
This is a bug see: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636930
This bug only seems to address the overshooting issue but not the real problem of the icon moving away from you mouse pointer. If the appearing label or summary notification would be considered part of the clickable area for the icon this would fix the problem easily and make the overshooting issue disappear since you no longer have to move the pointer to the icon (for a second time).
The label is supposed to be clickable, and just checked it works here. If it doesn't for you than there is another bug that we have to track down and fix (but it isn't intentional).
On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 10:37 +0100, drago01 wrote:
This bug only seems to address the overshooting issue but not the real problem of the icon moving away from you mouse pointer. If the appearing label or summary notification would be considered part of the clickable area for the icon this would fix the problem easily and make the overshooting issue disappear since you no longer have to move the pointer to the icon (for a second time).
The label is supposed to be clickable, and just checked it works here. If it doesn't for you than there is another bug that we have to track down and fix (but it isn't intentional).
There's a longstanding issue with the labels for 'legacy' notifications not being clickable - the one I always hit is xchat.
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote:
On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 10:37 +0100, drago01 wrote:
This bug only seems to address the overshooting issue but not the real problem of the icon moving away from you mouse pointer. If the appearing label or summary notification would be considered part of the clickable area for the icon this would fix the problem easily and make the overshooting issue disappear since you no longer have to move the pointer to the icon (for a second time).
The label is supposed to be clickable, and just checked it works here. If it doesn't for you than there is another bug that we have to track down and fix (but it isn't intentional).
There's a longstanding issue with the labels for 'legacy' notifications not being clickable - the one I always hit is xchat.
Ah indeed ... this does not work for legacy tray icons yet, Dan is working on fixing it though: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=630842
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 10:06 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 16:20 +0100, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
On 02/27/2011 03:55 PM, Mike Chambers wrote:
When in a program (Evolution for example), it seems this is the only one I see in the task window/panel or whatever up top. I can't tell Firefox or anything is running, unleses I click on the Activities link or control tab.
I think this is sort of intentional. If I understand the way this is supposed to work correctly then you are not supposed to care if Firefox is already running but instead simply click on it in your favorites and if an instance is already running it will be brought into focus or a new instance is started. Also you don't need to click on "Activities" but can simply move the mouse to the upper left corner to open the favorites. While this takes some getting used to I think it makes sense. Simply "throw" you mouse into the upper left corner and then click on Firefox.
OK, got the corner thing with the mouse, seems to work. Still hate it. Seems more work to do...move mouse, click on icon, then start. Instead of just going to workspace/icon or whatever and clicking on it.
You can also use the Windows key to get the overview (that's changeable in GSettings), and use Alt-Tab or Alt-key-above-Tab to switch between window groups (applications) and within groups.
I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
I think the general problem here is that with the advent of tablet and other touchscreen driven devices the whole hover mechanic just doesn't work at all anymore. On the other hand I noticed that when I move the mouse over an icon at the bottom right corner the icon slides to the side and reveal a label for that icon. So there the hover concept seems to be still alive. This is a problem though as apparently you cannot click that label:
- Update icon appears
- You want to click on it and move the mouse over it
- The icon moves away from your pointer revealing the label
- Clicking no longer works since the label is not clickable
- You move the mouse over to the new icon position
- If you overshoot the icon again slides away from you pointer => continue
at 2. 7. If you don't overshoot you are finally able to do what you wanted to do in the first place: click that icon.
Yep, experienced same thing with the bottom right icons. But as you said, hypocritical when can't do it at the top over time/date/etc..but in the bottom it's set to, yet have to hit it at right spot for it to work.
This area isn't quite done designing I believe, and your findings pretty much match that of other early users and developers. I'd expect it to get fixed in due time.
On 02/27/2011 10:20 AM, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
I think this is sort of intentional. If I understand the way this is supposed to work correctly then you are not supposed to care if Firefox is already running but instead simply click on it in your favorites and if an instance is already running it will be brought into focus or a new instance is started.
This obviously makes little/no sense - how does the gnome launcher know when I want to bring the existing running app to foreground versus when I want a new instance of same app?
It cannot - so if the above is correct it is a design flaw.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Hi,
I think this is sort of intentional. If I understand the way this is supposed to work correctly then you are not supposed to care if Firefox is already running but instead simply click on it in your favorites and if an instance is already running it will be brought into focus or a new instance is started.
This obviously makes little/no sense - how does the gnome launcher know when I want to bring the existing running app to foreground versus when I want a new instance of same app?
Have you tried right-click?
It cannot - so if the above is correct it is a design flaw.
I think you should read more about gnome-shell and it's ideas. That would probably give you more understanding about it and how to use it.
- -- Aurimas
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:15:40 +0200, Aurimas wrote:
I think this is sort of intentional. If I understand the way this is supposed to work correctly then you are not supposed to care if Firefox is already running but instead simply click on it in your favorites and if an instance is already running it will be brought into focus or a new instance is started.
This obviously makes little/no sense - how does the gnome launcher know when I want to bring the existing running app to foreground versus when I want a new instance of same app?
Have you tried right-click?
Right-click is flawed, as it doesn't offer to start the app if no instance of the app is running already:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-February/097333.html
To start a new instance of an app, you are supposed to drag'n'drop the Favorites icon onto the desktop. Right-click only works if the app is running already.
On 02/27/2011 02:41 PM, Michael Schwendt wrote:
Rumor has it (coff coff) that gnome was infiltrated by kde developers trying to get their users back
:-) :-) :-)
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 8:41 PM, Michael Schwendt mschwendt@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:15:40 +0200, Aurimas wrote:
I think this is sort of intentional. If I understand the way this is supposed to work correctly then you are not supposed to care if Firefox is already running but instead simply click on it in your favorites and if an instance is already running it will be brought into focus or a new instance is started.
This obviously makes little/no sense - how does the gnome launcher know when I want to bring the existing running app to foreground versus when I want a new instance of same app?
Have you tried right-click?
Right-click is flawed, as it doesn't offer to start the app if no instance of the app is running already:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-February/097333.html
To start a new instance of an app, you are supposed to drag'n'drop the Favorites icon onto the desktop. Right-click only works if the app is running already.
As I told you in the other thread I have already fixed it upstream, that is you will always see a "New window" item regardless if the app is running or not (once the fix hits rawhide / f15).
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:43:54 +0100, drago01 wrote:
Have you tried right-click?
Right-click is flawed, as it doesn't offer to start the app if no instance of the app is running already:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-February/097333.html
To start a new instance of an app, you are supposed to drag'n'drop the Favorites icon onto the desktop. Right-click only works if the app is running already.
As I told you in the other thread I have already fixed it upstream, that is you will always see a "New window" item regardless if the app is running or not (once the fix hits rawhide / f15).
Well, I figured it was you who committed the change, but that would have been more obvious if you used your real name for all emails. ;)
About the right-click, I'm not fond of the extra work - I can't tell whether I will use it to start new apps or whether I will try to get accustomed to drag'n'drop instead. Compared with what I've been using so far before (a single-click launcher icon in the GNOME panel for a couple of "favourites"), the new day is more work and less convenient.
Btw, I think the GNOME 3 roll-out in Fedora should be "all or nothing", that means, no *competing* fallback mode that tries to keep old panel features alive.
2011/2/27 Michael Schwendt:
Btw, I think the GNOME 3 roll-out in Fedora should be "all or nothing", that means, no *competing* fallback mode that tries to keep old panel features alive.
Currently, the suspend-resume cycle is broken even on mainstream hardware e.g. using the r300g driver. Forcing a GL enabled desktop upon everybody seems overzealous. ~C
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Christoph Frieben christoph.frieben@googlemail.com wrote:
2011/2/27 Michael Schwendt:
Btw, I think the GNOME 3 roll-out in Fedora should be "all or nothing", that means, no *competing* fallback mode that tries to keep old panel features alive.
Currently, the suspend-resume cycle is broken even on mainstream hardware e.g. using the r300g driver. Forcing a GL enabled desktop upon everybody seems overzealous. ~C
In your case you should define "broken" and put that into bugzilla ... which might end up being more productive than that post ;)
2011/2/27 drago01:
In your case you should define "broken" and put that into bugzilla ... which might end up being more productive than that post ;)
A related bug report (#643700) has actually been around in Red Hat Bugzilla since last fall, thus your criticism is quite bold. I would actually be curious to learn about --any-- user of the r300g driver who can actually continue to use the GNOME shell after resume from suspend without rebooting the system. I am currently dealing with a moveable mouse pointer in front of an otherwise unresponsive desktop. ~C
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Michael Schwendt mschwendt@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:43:54 +0100, drago01 wrote:
Have you tried right-click?
Right-click is flawed, as it doesn't offer to start the app if no instance of the app is running already:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-February/097333.html
To start a new instance of an app, you are supposed to drag'n'drop the Favorites icon onto the desktop. Right-click only works if the app is running already.
As I told you in the other thread I have already fixed it upstream, that is you will always see a "New window" item regardless if the app is running or not (once the fix hits rawhide / f15).
Well, I figured it was you who committed the change, but that would have been more obvious if you used your real name for all emails. ;)
Doesn't matter who made the changes just wanted to point out that the "flaw" is already fixed.
About the right-click, I'm not fond of the extra work - I can't tell whether I will use it to start new apps or whether I will try to get accustomed to drag'n'drop instead. Compared with what I've been using so far before (a single-click launcher icon in the GNOME panel for a couple of "favourites"), the new day is more work and less convenient.
Well I mostly use the drag n drop .. as it allows opening apps on different workspaces / creating new workspaces without the extra step of switching to the workspace first.
When on the same workspace I don't really have the need to open multiple windows using launchers that often (most of the time I use shortcuts like ctrl-n / ctrl-shift-n etc.).
Btw, I think the GNOME 3 roll-out in Fedora should be "all or nothing", that means, no *competing* fallback mode that tries to keep old panel features alive.
Well the primary purpose of the fallback is to home something for devices without proper 3D acceleration (either because the driver sucks, the hardware is too old or because it is a VM).
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 23:03:02 +0100, drago01 wrote:
Btw, I think the GNOME 3 roll-out in Fedora should be "all or nothing", that means, no *competing* fallback mode that tries to keep old panel features alive.
Well the primary purpose of the fallback is to home something for devices without proper 3D acceleration (either because the driver sucks, the hardware is too old or because it is a VM).
... and to make it easier for people, who don't like the new GNOME, to switch to something more "familiar"? Just to not lose them to a different DE?
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 23:18 +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 23:03:02 +0100, drago01 wrote:
Btw, I think the GNOME 3 roll-out in Fedora should be "all or nothing", that means, no *competing* fallback mode that tries to keep old panel features alive.
Well the primary purpose of the fallback is to home something for devices without proper 3D acceleration (either because the driver sucks, the hardware is too old or because it is a VM).
... and to make it easier for people, who don't like the new GNOME, to switch to something more "familiar"? Just to not lose them to a different DE?
No. That's not an intended purpose of the fallback mode. The GNOME team expressly does not want to maintain a 'classic' interface alongside the new interface for refuseniks, in much the same way as the KDE team did not want to burden themselves with maintaining KDE 3 alongside KDE 4. As drago01 said, the fallback mode is intended _only_ to cope with cases where the Shell actually cannot run.
On 02/28/2011 08:43 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 23:18 +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 23:03:02 +0100, drago01 wrote:
Btw, I think the GNOME 3 roll-out in Fedora should be "all or nothing", that means, no *competing* fallback mode that tries to keep old panel features alive.
Well the primary purpose of the fallback is to home something for devices without proper 3D acceleration (either because the driver sucks, the hardware is too old or because it is a VM).
... and to make it easier for people, who don't like the new GNOME, to switch to something more "familiar"? Just to not lose them to a different DE?
No. That's not an intended purpose of the fallback mode. The GNOME team expressly does not want to maintain a 'classic' interface alongside the new interface for refuseniks, in much the same way as the KDE team did not want to burden themselves with maintaining KDE 3 alongside KDE 4. As drago01 said, the fallback mode is intended _only_ to cope with cases where the Shell actually cannot run.
It's one thing to refuse to maintain another interface just because old grumpies (and yes I'll freely admit myself being one) don't like change, but in this case they have to maintain it anyway because gnome-shell is fundamentally tied to something (3d acceleration) that by its very nature is not going to be available in number of situations. And as an consquence, the user now gets (and is supposed to learn) a completely different environment depending on how and where he/she logs in: think of multiple computers (some gnome-shell capable, some not) with shared home directory, remote logins etc.
- Panu -
On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 10:46 +0200, Panu Matilainen wrote:
On 02/28/2011 08:43 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 23:18 +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 23:03:02 +0100, drago01 wrote:
Btw, I think the GNOME 3 roll-out in Fedora should be "all or nothing", that means, no *competing* fallback mode that tries to keep old panel features alive.
Well the primary purpose of the fallback is to home something for devices without proper 3D acceleration (either because the driver sucks, the hardware is too old or because it is a VM).
... and to make it easier for people, who don't like the new GNOME, to switch to something more "familiar"? Just to not lose them to a different DE?
No. That's not an intended purpose of the fallback mode. The GNOME team expressly does not want to maintain a 'classic' interface alongside the new interface for refuseniks, in much the same way as the KDE team did not want to burden themselves with maintaining KDE 3 alongside KDE 4. As drago01 said, the fallback mode is intended _only_ to cope with cases where the Shell actually cannot run.
It's one thing to refuse to maintain another interface just because old grumpies (and yes I'll freely admit myself being one) don't like change, but in this case they have to maintain it anyway because gnome-shell is fundamentally tied to something (3d acceleration) that by its very nature is not going to be available in number of situations. And as an consquence, the user now gets (and is supposed to learn) a completely different environment depending on how and where he/she logs in: think of multiple computers (some gnome-shell capable, some not) with shared home directory, remote logins etc.
The fallback mode is supposed to "mimick" the gnome-shell behaviour, within its limited abilities. You won't be able to move the applets, or fiddle around with it. Think of it as a cut-down version of the shell.
If you see things that don't match, feel free to file bugs against gnome-panel, and they should hopefully get routed to the right component.
Cheers
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 5:56 AM, Bastien Nocera bnocera@redhat.com wrote:
The fallback mode is supposed to "mimick" the gnome-shell behaviour, within its limited abilities. You won't be able to move the applets, or fiddle around with it. Think of it as a cut-down version of the shell.
If you see things that don't match, feel free to file bugs against gnome-panel, and they should hopefully get routed to the right component.
This is all very much a work in progress, but yes, that's the goal.
On 02/27/2011 09:55 AM, Mike Chambers wrote:
<snip> I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
try:
$ gsettings set org.gnome.shell.clock show-date true
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 11:23 -0500, Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
On 02/27/2011 09:55 AM, Mike Chambers wrote:
<snip> I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
try:
$ gsettings set org.gnome.shell.clock show-date true
No problem turning it on or off to see it permanently. But used to rather just have clock viewable, then just hover mouse over for date if really need to see it.
No biggie I guess, as it's now in middle by itself and not that big so enabled date back for now.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Mike Chambers mike@miketc.net wrote:
Fonts or whatever don't seem to be as nice or full looking as other releases (F14 or below).
When in a program (Evolution for example), it seems this is the only one I see in the task window/panel or whatever up top. I can't tell Firefox or anything is running, unleses I click on the Activities link or control tab.
When adding a background image, that little plus/negative sign at the bottom isn't too inviting to use. Had to look at that program couple times to understand/see them at the bottom. Could be couple bigger buttons or something.
How the hell do you add something to be started up when your profile starts? Such as devilspie or whatever? I used to add this to startup programs.
I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
Alpha release has not even happened yet - it is early days - and gnome3 is not scheduled for release till April - if there are things are you would like changing, now is a good time to file reports either as RFE in bugzilla for Fedora, or on the gnome3 development upstream ...
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 08:55 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
Fonts or whatever don't seem to be as nice or full looking as other releases (F14 or below).
When in a program (Evolution for example), it seems this is the only one I see in the task window/panel or whatever up top. I can't tell Firefox or anything is running, unleses I click on the Activities link or control tab.
When adding a background image, that little plus/negative sign at the bottom isn't too inviting to use. Had to look at that program couple times to understand/see them at the bottom. Could be couple bigger buttons or something.
How the hell do you add something to be started up when your profile starts? Such as devilspie or whatever? I used to add this to startup programs.
I used to be able to hover my mouse over the time and at least it would tell me the date instead of having to click on it just to see it.
These are all rather 'GNOME 3 impressions' than 'F15 Alpha impressions'. It's probably going to help more to raise them on GNOME mailing lists, or the Fedora desktop mailing list.
On 02/28/2011 01:46 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
These are all rather 'GNOME 3 impressions' than 'F15 Alpha impressions'. It's probably going to help more to raise them on GNOME mailing lists, or the Fedora desktop mailing list.
Mangled Billy Shakespeare aside ...
This is a very valid point - the trail of complaints are largely gnome issues (design, bugs whatever)
What should we fedorans be discussing then ?
Perhaps we should discuss what DE path fedora should follow. There are precious few choices.
For F15: --------
(i) Continue to follow gnome 3 - for f15 or delay to f16
* The future - get with it * Too soon, too many missing features, buggy etc
* Too late - we're too far along - we have to stick w it.
(ii) Switch the primary DE to kde
(iii) Stick with gnome 2 (classic) until f16 - then ...
F16 and beyond: -----------
(i) Gnome 3
* It has all the missing features perhaps, and is far less buggy
(ii) Gnome 2
* probably no longer an option
(iii) KDE
(iv) wayland
* probably not till F17 or F18 at the earliest
On 02/28/2011 07:32 PM, Genes MailLists wrote:
This is a very valid point - the trail of complaints are largely gnome issues (design, bugs whatever)
What should we fedorans be discussing then ?
There are a number of other changes in Fedora and many of them directly related to Fedora integration. I am sure we won't run out of things to discuss.
Rahul
-
Adam Williamson -
Aurimas Černius -
Bastien Nocera -
Christoph Frieben -
Clyde E. Kunkel -
Colin Walters -
Dennis Jacobfeuerborn -
drago01 -
Genes MailLists -
Kevin Fenzi -
Larry Vaden -
Lennart Poettering -
Michael Schwendt -
Michał Piotrowski -
Mike Chambers -
mike cloaked -
Miroslav Lichvar -
Panu Matilainen -
Rahul Sundaram