Hi
As you know, Gnome 2.4 final should be available on september 10, 5 days before last rhl-beta release. There has been a lot of work on HIGification and usability.
gnome 2.3 bugs: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/gnome-23-report.html If red hat developers are able to dedicate some time on crasher bugs, it will help on making it stable faster.
Please consider including gnome 2.4 in next Red Hat release. It doesn't bring major new features, but it's more polished.
Mandrake is recognized as the desktop distribution and Suse is getting more and more sales on enterprise servers, both using KDE. If gnome 2.4 is not included in next red hat, it will delay it's adoption until next release ( no, it won't be installed separately when it's out. Companies have time only to apply red hat official updates )
Thanks,
sure hope it makes it!
d.
On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 14:15, Marius Andreiana wrote:
Hi
As you know, Gnome 2.4 final should be available on september 10, 5 days before last rhl-beta release. There has been a lot of work on HIGification and usability.
gnome 2.3 bugs: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/gnome-23-report.html If red hat developers are able to dedicate some time on crasher bugs, it will help on making it stable faster.
Please consider including gnome 2.4 in next Red Hat release. It doesn't bring major new features, but it's more polished.
Mandrake is recognized as the desktop distribution and Suse is getting more and more sales on enterprise servers, both using KDE. If gnome 2.4 is not included in next red hat, it will delay it's adoption until next release ( no, it won't be installed separately when it's out. Companies have time only to apply red hat official updates )
Thanks,
On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 14:15, Marius Andreiana wrote:
Hi
As you know, Gnome 2.4 final should be available on september 10, 5 days before last rhl-beta release. There has been a lot of work on HIGification and usability.
gnome 2.3 bugs: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/gnome-23-report.html If red hat developers are able to dedicate some time on crasher bugs, it will help on making it stable faster.
Please consider including gnome 2.4 in next Red Hat release. It doesn't bring major new features, but it's more polished.
We are quite aware of Gnome 2.3, given that several of us are maintainers of core Gnome modules. This also means we are aware of the schedules involved. However, Red Hat Linux is on a time-based schedule, and it was clear long ago that Gnome 2.4 would be released too late to be in the current release.
Luckily, both Gnome and Red Hat are using a time-based schedule with a pretty fast turnaround (both about 6 months). This means that even if the schedule of the two projects will not always be synchronized it will never take that long before the latest Gnome release will get into a Red Hat release.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl@redhat.com alla@lysator.liu.se He's a hate-fuelled amnesiac messiah in a wheelchair. She's a foxy hypochondriac schoolgirl who dreams of becoming Elvis. They fight crime!
On Lu, 2003-08-04 at 17:29, Alexander Larsson wrote:
We are quite aware of Gnome 2.3, given that several of us are maintainers of core Gnome modules. This also means we are aware of the schedules involved
Yes. Talked with hp on irc after the rhl-beta release, he said including it *might* be possible. This was just a reminder before the feature freeze on August 8.
However, Red Hat Linux is on a time-based schedule, and it was clear long ago that Gnome 2.4 would be released too late to be in the current release.
Thank you for clarification.
Well, maybe next rhl-beta will sync with gnome 2.6 enterprise ready :)
On 04 Aug 2003 16:29:23 +0200, you wrote:
We are quite aware of Gnome 2.3, given that several of us are maintainers of core Gnome modules. This also means we are aware of the schedules involved. However, Red Hat Linux is on a time-based schedule, and it was clear long ago that Gnome 2.4 would be released too late to be in the current release.
Well, Gnome 2.4 is basically in feature freeze with beta testing occurring. I guess the question is whether it would cause to many problems having the Red Hat and Gnome beta testing occur at the same time by including the Gnome beta in the Red Hat beta.
Luckily, both Gnome and Red Hat are using a time-based schedule with a pretty fast turnaround (both about 6 months). This means that even if the schedule of the two projects will not always be synchronized it will never take that long before the latest Gnome release will get into a Red Hat release.
Or more accurately, that there will always be a needless 6 month delay between Gnome being released and then being included in Red Hat.
Which, given the fact that most other commercial distributions tend to favour KDE, seems to be a serious negative for Gnome that the only distribution that actually supports it is *always* out of date.
On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 02:06:05PM -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
On 04 Aug 2003 16:29:23 +0200, you wrote:
We are quite aware of Gnome 2.3, given that several of us are maintainers of core Gnome modules. This also means we are aware of the schedules involved. However, Red Hat Linux is on a time-based schedule, and it was clear long ago that Gnome 2.4 would be released too late to be in the current release.
Well, Gnome 2.4 is basically in feature freeze with beta testing occurring. I guess the question is whether it would cause to many problems having the Red Hat and Gnome beta testing occur at the same time by including the Gnome beta in the Red Hat beta.
It makes some sense, but would mean possibly delaying the Red Hat release a bit. Historically this was impossible because the gold date had to be planned months in advance to get all the physical aspects of the box set and distribution lined up.
It's conceivably possible now but we have to remember that there are many pieces of software in the release and if we're always delaying for something we'll end up with 5 years between releases.
Luckily, both Gnome and Red Hat are using a time-based schedule with a pretty fast turnaround (both about 6 months). This means that even if the schedule of the two projects will not always be synchronized it will never take that long before the latest Gnome release will get into a Red Hat release.
Or more accurately, that there will always be a needless 6 month delay between Gnome being released and then being included in Red Hat.
6 months *worst case* delay, *if* both GNOME and Red Hat stick to time-based releases. If either GNOME or Red Hat starts delaying for specific features - such as "the latest GNOME version" - the worst case for missing any specific feature becomes much worse. Suddenly it's possible to have needless 2 year delays.
So time-based releases can mean missing a specific feature, but avoid worst-case behavior.
Delays from 0 to 6 months between GNOME and Red Hat release are equally likely, 6 months is not any more likely than anything else. From a Red Hat standpoint, I think the ideal delay would actually be about 2 months, which gives us time to package and integrate.
So with GNOME and Red Hat both doing time-based releases the average delay should be 3 months, not that far off from ideal.
Still, we may want to consider tweaking the schedule a couple weeks to get 2.4 in. My main worry is just having people available to actually do the packaging work in the next few weeks, which I'm not sure we have.
Havoc
On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 21:02, Havoc Pennington wrote:
6 months *worst case* delay, *if* both GNOME and Red Hat stick to time-based releases. If either GNOME or Red Hat starts delaying for specific features - such as "the latest GNOME version" - the worst case for missing any specific feature becomes much worse. Suddenly it's possible to have needless 2 year delays.
Well, if we can't afford some delay, release RHL<whatever-version-numer-it-will-be> with Gnome 2.2 and once Gnome 2.4 is ready, launch a Service Pack or Add-on that will upgrade from 2.2 to 2.4. This will be easier for novice users. Instead of connecting to RHN to download updates, or even worse, manually downloading the updates, you download the Add-on, run it, and then, Gnome is automagically updated.
A single, small ISO image with an Autorun-like feature for automated upgrading would suffice, I think.
On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 09:11:55PM +0200, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote:
Well, if we can't afford some delay, release RHL<whatever-version-numer-it-will-be> with Gnome 2.2 and once Gnome 2.4 is ready, launch a Service Pack or Add-on that will upgrade from 2.2 to 2.4.
This is a ton of work, involving a couple months worth of betas on top of the month or two of developing the update; not worth it really, with releases already so tightly packed... at least that would be my view. By the time you get it done the next full OS release is out anyway...
Havoc
On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 03:11 PM, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote:
Well, if we can't afford some delay, release RHL<whatever-version-numer-it-will-be> with Gnome 2.2 and once Gnome 2.4 is ready, launch a Service Pack or Add-on that will upgrade from 2.2 to 2.4. This will be easier for novice users. Instead of connecting to RHN to download updates, or even worse, manually downloading the updates, you download the Add-on, run it, and then, Gnome is automagically updated.
There is always the Fedora project for upgrades like this.
--
C. Magnus Hedemark http://trilug.org/~chrish PGP Key fingerprint = 984D 9A88 3D60 016F BE01 1506 60FB 85E1 9ABD 96F6
On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 04:29:23PM +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote:
Luckily, both Gnome and Red Hat are using a time-based schedule with a pretty fast turnaround (both about 6 months). This means that even if the schedule of the two projects will not always be synchronized it will never take that long before the latest Gnome release will get into a Red Hat release.
One of the things that we have mentioned before is that we expect Cambridge++ (i.e. the next release cycle) to be based on the 2.6 kernel, and that we want to do a particularly short cycle in order to have a 2.6-based release out there ASAP. The initial impressions of the 2.6.0-test kernels are much better than 2.4.0-test kernels, so the cycle could be quite short. As the long discussions on rhl-beta-list about testing Arjan's 2.6.0-test kernels and other home-built 2.6.0-test kernels have indicated, some of the necessary testing is already going on.
So Cambridge++ could debut Gnome 2.4 as well and it would show up in Cambridge++ betas soon after Cambridge.
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book." Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 16:33, Michael K. Johnson wrote:
So Cambridge++ could debut Gnome 2.4 as well and it would show up in Cambridge++ betas soon after Cambridge.
Either I'm misunderstanding what your saying, or you've got the naming scheme wrong or you misunderstand.
Cambridge++ is what is currently beta testing as this moment in time. After the official release, Cambridge won't exist unless it's referred to by name still for bug fixes and updates. Other than that, the next beta cycle will have a new name internally, as well as publically (unless they change things a bit).
On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 04:54:10PM -0500, Mike Chambers wrote:
On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 16:33, Michael K. Johnson wrote:
So Cambridge++ could debut Gnome 2.4 as well and it would show up in Cambridge++ betas soon after Cambridge.
Either I'm misunderstanding what your saying, or you've got the naming scheme wrong or you misunderstand.
I think *you* have the naming scheme wrong. Consider my email address and then think about whether it is likely that I've got the naming scheme wildly wrong. :-)
Cambridge++ is what is currently beta testing as this moment in time.
No, Cambridge is what is currently beta testing at this moment in time, not Cambridge++.
After the official release, Cambridge won't exist unless it's referred to by name still for bug fixes and updates. Other than that, the next beta cycle will have a new name internally, as well as publically (unless they change things a bit).
Cambridge is the overall release name; the code name for the beta of Cambridge is Severn, and the code name for the final release of Cambridge has not yet been assigned. Cambridge exists now in beta form. When it is released, Cambridge will release in final form, but instead of being called Severn will be called something else. For now, we can call Cambridge final "Severn++". "Cambridge" under Red Hat's previous code of secrecy would have been a secret name which in theory would be divulged only under NDA, but in practice was often leaked.
Cambridge++ is a placeholder for the not-yet-assigned release name for the release following Cambridge. Its betas and final release have also not yet been assigned code names.
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book." Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 17:09, Michael K. Johnson wrote:
I think *you* have the naming scheme wrong. Consider my email address and then think about whether it is likely that I've got the naming scheme wildly wrong. :-)
ROFLMAO, I just reread that whole thing before I reread who you were and your right. I don't even have an idea wtf I just said LOL
Sowwy bout dat :P
I think *you* have the naming scheme wrong. Consider my email address and then think about whether it is likely that I've got the naming scheme wildly wrong. :-)
You know what would be great. If there was a webpage that described the names and what not.
oh wait
there was...
:)
-sv