On 11/06/2010 02:53 AM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
On 11/05/2010 09:46 PM, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:56:51 +0100, Ralf wrote:
>> It doesn't tell the user that core dumps without reproducer are
>> worthless in most cases but blindly sends out reports
> Parts of the Fedora user base "abuse" ABRT in that they refuse to
> fill in the empty fields. Blame the reporters not the tool.
A matter of point of view: To me this is an ABRT GUI issue. It currently
doesn't suck as much as it did before, nevertheless its usability still
leaves much to be desired.
- please, send me some ideas or mockups and I will be more than happy to
change the GUI... but just complaining "it sucks" doesn't give me much
information what to fix ...
What would you do if you were a "simple computer user" and are facing
this "flash bulb icon" asking you to become "root"
- this is not true, you don't need a root for user crashes, so please
don't lie ...
and to get a bugzilla
- yes, that's unfortunate, but what would be the solution here? allowing
some anonymous account will lead to even worse situation...
You'd call your sys-admin, who'll deinstall or deactivate ABRT pretty
soon, when you call him for the "Nth time".
- don't understand, why would you call admin? maybe this comes from the
wrong presumption that ABRT needs root...
As a user you'd also think "what kind of crap is this
the WinXP I have at home is better".
- hm, wxp bug reporting is nice, because end-users can't even see where
the bug went and check it's progress... if someone thinks it's better
then...then I won't try to argue with him...
> It's too
> easy for such people to open tickets via ABRT and then ignore
> a maintainer's NEEDINFO request.
Correct - But the same applies to maintainers.
My experience is, most of them ignore ABRT reports, probably because
the ABRT reports are not helpful to them and/or don't contain sufficient
- again and again and again - We know ABRT is not able to provide a good
debug informations for every application we have, but the solution is
not ignoring the bugs, but send us email or create a RFE in bugzilla
describing what additional info you'd like and how/where to get it ...
> It's disheartening in some cases, but
> it's a people-problem not a tool-problem.
I disagree - IMO; ABRT is not end-user ready. It presumes end-users
to be familiar with redhat's infrastructure, which is a developer
infrastructure and them to be interested to get involved into Fedora
development. This simply does not apply.
>> Also, this produces incomplete traceback in many (IMO all) cases.
> Cannot confirm that.
In almost all cases, I am observing missting debuginfos even after
> There seem to be some issues with not finding the
> needed debuginfo packages, which may be related to frequent updates of
> repos and older packages getting pruned. It may also be related to users
> updating their boxes at strange times, e.g. seldomly but immediately after
> a crash.
Possible. This certainly this applies in some cases.
However, I am experiencing missing debuginfos after debuginfo-install
even with what is supposed to be "uptodate" Fedora installations.
- not ABRT problem,, but there are some projects trying to deal with
this which I mentioned in one of my previous emails.. (debuginfofs and