I know we're talking "Workstation" not "Desktop" but I also know that one of the goals is that users should be able to do their general computing there too. So unlike the unwashed masses, I'm happy to go through a little extra trouble to make it work, but I'd like the end result to be that it works.

It's clear that there are some different viewpoints about what should happen.  But like I've been saying without independent data this discussion is pointless. Until the Workstation WG is willing to engage in exhaustive market research and user-surveys we will talk in circles.

Let's do the following:

+ Conduct large scale user-surveys with technology professionals in the target demographics described in the Workstation PRD such as start-ups, mid-range tech companies, large enterprise such as Google as well as academic institutions about their workflows and what tools they use.

+ Consult IDC and industry research to determine desktop sales trends and other information regarding the workstation market so the Workstation WG can make forward-looking projections.

+ Talk to OEM's and find out what their customers are looking for in a RHEL/CentOS/Fedora based desktop workstation platform.

+ Consult with industry experts at top-tier software publishers such as Adobe or Autodesk and see if they can deliver any insights on workstation use-cases in markets new to Linux.

A great starting point in this discussion is the fact that Microsoft's new CEO Satya Nadella has made a very data-driven decision and decided to go back to the traditional desktop metaphor in Windows 9, the same basic desktop design they've used since Windows 95.

[1] http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/10/saying-goodbye-to-windows-8/?ncid=rss&cps=gravity
[2] http://www.extremetech.com/computing/186212-leaked-build-of-windows-9-shows-reborn-start-menu-metro-apps-running-on-the-desktop
[3] http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/30/windows-9-desktop-mode/
[4] http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/04/future-windows-8-1-update-will-finally-bring-back-the-start-menu/

I'm sure you all watched the last Microsoft Build conference and saw the preview of the Windows 9 start-menu running Metro apps in windowed mode and boot to desktop.

Also Apple with it's new design in Mac OS X Yosemite isn't diverging from the traditional desktop design it's used since 2001 despite having a very successful mobile iOS business. 

[5] https://www.apple.com/osx/preview/design/

If the Workstation WG group intends on targeting developers using Windows and Mac OS X they have to take into consideration the fact that these developers are used to a very traditional workstation workflow and are unlikely to accept the alien and highly experimental desktop designs in use on Fedora today.



On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Adam Batkin <adam@batkin.net> wrote:
On 08/17/2014 03:25 AM, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:27 AM, Adam Batkin <adam@batkin.net> wrote:
[..]  and connecting/disconnecting external displays/projectors.

Huh? This can't be any easier really. You plug it in  .. it works. The
only thing we can do here is to make it plug in the cable for you but
we lack hardware for that ;)

Maybe life is better these days - I'll be honest, I haven't run Fedora (or any Linux) on a laptop in a few years now.

However (and this is basically the same problem): On my dual-head desktop PC, when I launch a full-screen game, the game is fine (one screen shuts off and the other plays full screen, which is what I want/expect) but when I go back to the desktop, any windows that were on the "secondary" screen have been moved to the "primary" screen. I [think I] know why this happens, and I even have a workaround ("Return to monitor" shell extension) but this raises two questions:

1) Why did I have to go out and find, then install this extension? Who *wouldn't* want this behavior as their default?

2) The extension *seems* to work well, but behind the scenes, I know that bad things (i.e. things I don't want/expect) are happening to my session, and who knows what might be adjusted or reset that I'm just not noticing right now

FYI, that behavior is with Urban Terror (ioquake3). Steam is different - it doesn't mess with my resolution/desktops, but it also doesn't blank the secondary screen which is its own problem. Steam also doesn't seem to let me full-screen its menu system on my primary display, it always fullscreens to the secondary, even though games will launch fullscreen on the primary (and not blank the secondary).

And those are two of the more popular game engines. Maybe it's a bug in the games. But if those two engines, which are pretty popular, can't get it right, maybe a little work is needed on the platform side?

Maybe Wayland will fix all of these things, but Wayland isn't really here yet, plus I have an nvidia card with the closed-source driver, so my understanding is that I'm out of luck for a little while anyway.

I know we're talking "Workstation" not "Desktop" but I also know that one of the goals is that users should be able to do their general computing there too. So unlike the unwashed masses, I'm happy to go through a little extra trouble to make it work, but I'd like the end result to be that it works.

-Adam Batkin