On Feb 2, 2014 1:23 PM, "Alex GS" <alxgrtnstrngl@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> liam.bulkley wrote:
> ---
> With regards to Fedora we are quite constrained so we have to carefully
> pick what we wish to pursue thus it makes most sense, to me, to make what
> changes we can to G3 and upstream them if possible.
> I think Gnome would benefit from an honest evaluation coming from those who
> they feel they can trust but who aren't involved with Gnome on a normal
> basis.
> ---
>
> This is what I disagree with.  The Fedora Workstation WG should never dictate design to the Gnome project.  Gnome 3 is first an independent project and secondly perfectly suited for it's use-case a "mobile oriented and integrated Desktop used by tech savvy consumers and forward thinking business users". For this purpose I think Gnome 3 is excellent choice for many types of users.  Fedora Workstation should stay out of Gnome's way and allow them to go on the journey they need to go on.  
>
> That's why Mate is a wise choice as the Workstation default as it allows for things to operate in parallel instead of getting Gnome's way and telling them how to do their job.
>
>
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I'm a little confused how you got "dictate to" from "honest evaluation". I even specifically said "upstream if possible". I am completely aware of how the Gnome autonomy works with regards to Fedora.
The point I am attempting to make is that it needs to be addressed that what Gnome is doing may not be completely what FW needs. Do we want to possibly compromise FW because of perceived obligations to Gnome?

Practically we have to use Gnome but I see no reason why Fedora can't address some of the design short comings of Gnome that Gnome developers won't really touch.
What you want just isn't feasible , in terms of resources and politics, and, IMHO, shouldn't even be desired. The Gnome Classic extensions are probably close enough on their own for people who aren't comfortable with changing their workflows but the focus, IMHO, should be on making small, self-contained design changes to Gnome that make our target users work easier than it was under G2/G3.

To the WG in general I'm a bit disappointed these comments haven't been more widely discussed. Having followed these various F.n discussions I don't recall having heard anyone make these suggestions which, to me, represent a very achievable compromise.