On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Pete Travis <lists(a)petetravis.com> wrote:
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On 09/01/2014 09:30 AM, Elad Alfassa wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 6:14 PM, Bruno Wolff III <bruno(a)wolff.to
> <mailto:bruno@wolff.to>> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 16:19:22 +0300,
> Elad Alfassa <elad(a)fedoraproject.org
<mailto:elad@fedoraproject.org>>
> wrote:
>
> However, "hardware accelerated graphics" shouldn't be in the
> minimal -
> people will still run Workstation on VM platforms where it's
> unavailable,
> eg. KVM/spice, we don't want them to think it's impossible to run
> our own
> OS on our own virtualization platform.
> I think it would make more sense for "Hardware accelerated
> graphics" to be
> in the recommended section.
>
>
> If you are using software for graphics you need a powerful CPU to make
> the system usable. That is an odd combination on real hardware. So I think
> for a recommendation it makes sense to suggest hardware graphic acceleration
> for workstation. I think the running it as a VM on one's desktop is an
> outlier case.
>
>
> Running in a VM on a desktop is actually a very important usecase. We're
> targeting developers after all, developers might develop to our platform and
> test in a vm when running our platform or when running another platform.
>
> --
> -Elad Alfassa.
>
>
Virtualization opens an entirely different context for hardware
requirements. QXL for guests hosted on my low power i3 utility server run
gnome-shell quite acceptably; my i7 workstation brings that up to
near-native for modern integrated graphics. Traditional cirrus type
graphics deliver a wholly unusable experience on the same hardware. QXL
isn't a magic bullet, though; on hosts with older hardware, performance
definitely degrades. I don't have a lot of experience with VMWare or vbox
stacks, but I assume there is a spectrum of unacceptable to adequate to
excellent there as well.
Maybe some guidelines specifically for virtualized instances of Workstation
would be a good idea. Recommend SPICE/QXL, with general guidelines for
other solutions, ie "For best results using Fedora Workstation as a virtual
machine, SPICE graphics with the QXL virtual graphics adapter are
recommended [link to explanation]. Other virtualization solutions should
provide adequate virtualized graphics hardware to ensure the best possible
experience."
Separate guidelines for VMs would be a good idea. I'm not sure I'd go
into non-KVM setups though. I don't think we're realistically going
to be able to 1) target those and 2) test them.
....and maybe something brief about how testing/development in a VM
doesn't
actually require a responsive desktop environment?
Er... that's somewhat confusing given we're talking about the
Workstation product in a VM. I think we'd want to make a good
impression of the product in a VM to entice people to install it on
their real hardware. Having a responsive desktop for the "desktop"
product is probably a high priority.
josh