Approve previous meeting minutes. Please review for corrections.
- Chair expected to announce a carefully coordinated dual use strategy
for Pagure and Taiga.
Workstation WG vacancy
Consideration of earlyoom by default in Fedora 32
Previous meeting: Langon says WG should have a position. Allen says a
shorter hang, that's still too long, isn't much of a solution.
In the issue: Michael says the issue is being worked on elsewhere,
consider pulling the feature.
Working group supports the earlyoom by default proposal for F32.
Working group supports withdrawing the earlyoom proposal.
Working group has no opinion; needs further discussion; needs to
invite guest speakers (subject experts); prefers to leave it up to
Consideration to review video vs IRC meetings
We've had a few video meetings now. Let's take a temperature reading.
Continue with video.
Revert to IRC.
Choose next meeting venue at the end of each meeting?
Next week's agenda?
Reminder! We're meeting on Tuesdays now!
1. Roll call
2. Approve previous meeting minutes. Please review for corrections:
4. Workstation WG vacancy
5. Consideration of earlyoom by default in Fedora 32
6. Consideration to review video vs IRC meetings
I will send a detailed version in the official agenda, so everyone can
be prepared prior to the meeting. Please reply to this email, or reply
to either Allen or me privately, with ideas for additional agenda
items for us to consider.
So first of all sorry for being a little AWOL lately, but I took a much
needed Month of vacation in December to recharge my batteries and attend
some family events.
So the background for this email is that we changed how the Red Hat
internal desktop effort operates quite a bit over the last year and I think
the time has come for those changes to also be reflected in how we
interact with the wider community. So while I am not changing position
inside Red Hat, I will still be managing our desktop, graphics and i18n
effort, we now have Tomas Popela set up as our Fedora and RHEL Workstation
Product Owner and thus I want to announce that I will step down from the
Fedora Workstation Working group effective immediately and at the same time
strongly recommend that Tomas Popela replaces me on the working group.
Tomas should be able to be a strong link between Red Hats internal efforts
and planning around the Linux Desktop and help combine that with the
helping with the Fedora community efforts happening as part of the Fedora
Workstation Working Group.
Rest assured that though I will stay involved and plan to continue my
active blogging and doing other types outreach around the Fedora
Workstation effort, even if my involvement with the Working Group will be a
little more indirect going forward.
The 3.34.3 update,
https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2020-194da76ba0 is now in
updates testing. It's a fairly small update this time around, mostly
gnome-shell/mutter fixes + a bunch of leaf apps getting translation updates.
If you have time, please install it from updates-testing and give it a
quick spin and provide karma feedback in bodhi so we can move it to stable.
Hi all; see below for today's meeting notes.
# Fedora Workstation WG meeting, 6 January 2020, 9:00 EST
- Present: Allan, Chris, Neal, Michael, Langdon, Matthias, Jens
- Missing: Kalev, Christian
### Permanent chair issue - #114
- Chris, Michael and Allan have volunteered. Michael proposes that we
appoint Chris as chair and Allan as vice-chair, until F32
- The vice-chair will be responsible for meeting minutes and publishing.
If the vice-chair is chairing the meeting, a secretary will be named for
- Proposed: vice-chair to serve as secretary unless the chair is
unavailable, in which case a temporary secretary will be selected while the
vice-chair fills in.
- Do we want to use Etherpad for notes and then publish through Zodbot?
Langdon describes some advantages of Zodbot. ACTION: Allan will look into
- Do we want to publish video recordings of the meetings? Various views;
in the end we decide to wait and see if anyone requests them.
### New meeting time - #118
- Due to time zones and members' existing commitments, the current options
are: 7:30 EST (any day); 9:30-11 (T, W, Th)
- ACTION: Michael to send out a poll with these options
### Taiga and/vs Pagure #112
- Some reservations about having issue tracking across two systems -
potential for duplication of information and conversations happening in two
- Some opposing views:
- Neal: there are benefits to curating a Kanban - so it doesn't get
backed up with massive numbers of potential work items.
- Langdon & Allan: Taiga as a transient work view - an extra layer of
management. Shouldn't have the same material as the Pagure issues.
- Langdon: avoiding duplication will require work and maybe some
corrective action if we stray from the path
- The decision is to let the chair decide. Chris is happy to try Taiga and
see how it goes.
### Enabling earlyoom by default - #119
- earlyoom is being proposed for F32 as a partial solution to systems
locking up due to memory shortages (the classic swap system lock-up)
- earlyoom finds the process that's causing the memory issue and
sigterms it (slightly kinder than just killing it). This will typically
return the system to a usable state in a couple of minutes.
- Matthias: the real issue is the kernel's swap implementation being too
slow. Neal: it seems that the kernel people aren't interested in working on
- earlyoom is not a great/complete solution, but it will help.
- Chris has some concerns about earlyoom being adequately tested.
- The work in #98 will help
- Neal: earlyoom will be a stability improvement. The potential problem is
it killing processes prematurely/unnecessarily. With earlyoom we can reduce
the default swap size.
- Langdon: you need to have a large swap for hibernate to work. Neal:
earlyoom could break hiberate (?) Chris: there's some related discussion in
- earlyoom is being raised so that people are aware of it. Langdon: the WG
should have a position on the change proposal.
- Allan: a two minute hang isn't much of a solution from a UX perspective
- a lot of users will give up and do a hard reboot within that time.
There's some interest in using hibernation more extensively; earlyoom could
be an issue if it makes that harder.
The Workstation WG is scheduled to have its next meeting on Monday 6th
January, at 9:00 US/Eastern.
We agreed last meeting to use Bluejeans for this one. The link is:
Langdon is scheduled to chair. Feel the power, Langdon!