As a co-maintainer, I would note that it is not in a very usable state
and upstream is not going to fix these issues in time for the Fedora 15
release. You can replace it with Hotot or Gwibber if it is better or if
it too late to be doing this, just not ship with a micro blogging client
at all and evaluate one of the options for the next release. Thanks
On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 21:07 +0000, BeartoothHOS wrote:
> How is that paradigm meant to apply to those absent-minded souls
> among us who disremember what an otherwise familiar item is called? There
> are a bunch of things (in fact more as time passes, alas!, especially
> anent renamed ones) that I find by groping toward a mental picture of
> something "down over about there." My verbal memory is crammed with
> languages living and dead, but my pictorial memory has a little room left.
One, Matthias said 'primary'; the tree view still exists, it's just
expected that most of the time you'll find it more efficient to search.
Two, you can search on description as well as name, so if you know what
the thing does, you can probably find it.
> > Bingo! I was trying to recall history reading old mailing list posts,
> > but Adam nails it. That matches my recollection of where that criteria
> > comes from.
> Am I missing an obvious remedy?? Since it was considered, surely
> some remedy *was* found and accepted.
For the Other category? We have various approaches, discussed in the bug
report, but it's not certain we'll adopt any of them for release time.
One is to dump all the Settings category items in System Tools, another
is to retain the Administration and Preferences categories from F14, yet
another is to just have Preferences and have all Settings category
entries in there.
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
James has asked me to write something about the desktop-related release
criteria in the light of bug
Starting with the bug itself, I'll state that I don't think it is a
blocker that we should fix for F15. It has made it to the blocker list
because it seems to violate the release criterion that there shall be no
'Other' menu in the panel menus.
Why did we put this in the release criteria ? Selecting from a long menu
is difficult, you can't actually see the content hidden behind the
menuitem until you perform a reasonably hard fine-motor-control task,
and it is hard to back out of submenu should it not contain what you are
In fact, these difficulties with hierarchical menus were one of the main
underlying motivations for the design of the shell overview. Not
surprisingly, the shell overview does not have these problems, mostly.
The primary mode of interaction with the overview is search; you just
The presence of the unsorted 'Other' grab-bag category is still an
annoyance, but since categories are much less prominent, it is just a
Looking at the rest of the 'Menu sanity' bullet points in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_15_Final_Release_Criteria some of
these codify the GNOME2 user experience and are not really adequate for
> All Applications listed in the desktop menus must have icons which
> have a consistent appearance and sufficiently high resolution to avoid
> appearing blurry
No problem with this one, although it should really be a bit more
concrete: the shell overview works best if the application icon is
available as a 256x256 png.
> All applications listed under the Applications menu or category must start
No doubt still relevant.
> All applications listed under the Applications menu or category must withstand
> a basic functionality test and not crash after a few minutes of normal use.
> They must also have working Help and Help -> About menu items
This one needs revision or clarification, I think. First of all, talking
about menu items only makes sense if one assumes a classical
menubar-toolbar-content-statusbar application layout. The developing
GNOME3 HIG will de-emphasize this pattern in favor of menubar-less
designs. And even if an application does have a menubar, maybe it does
not need help because it is very obvious ?
Wrt. to 'About', one thing we are aiming for in GNOME3 is to have
'unbranded utilities' which are part of the core desktop. 'About'
dialogs mostly make sense for applications which have a 'personality'
and are not just part of the desktop. In short: applications can have an
about dialog, but the shell overview also shows things which are not
applications in that sense.
Last question on this criterion is: What is the consequence ? If an
application does not have an about dialog, do we really expect to hold
the release until the packager has patched one in, collected the
necessary translations, written a manual, hooked it up, etc ? This
really feels more like a criterion to consult when choosing the
applications to include on the spin.
> There must be no Other menu or category
I've already talked about this. I really don't see us block a release
for this, but having meaningful classifications for all applications is
certainly a useful thing to keep in mind somehow. In fact, I think that
would be a more useful criterion.
> No application may unintentionally appear twice in the menus. In particular,
> items under System must not appear under Applications
This basically does not apply to the shell overview. It does not have
the Applications vs System dichotomy, and I think allowing overlapping
classifications would actually be a very useful thing in the overview;
if not for the fact that the desktop entry spec codifies mutual
exclusion for primary categories, IIRC.
This is probably not the right place to post but I suspect somebody
here can give me a helpful hint.
I have been running the fed15/gnome3 beta on my laptop without
any problems up till now but something very curious has happened.
I cannot boot a live cd on this laptop anymore!
The cd drive lights flash, it makes some noises and then
instead of the BIOS giving priority to the cd drive it seems
as if fed15 just steams ahead and takes control instead
of the distro on the cd and up pops the fed15 bootloader/manager
It does not make a difference if I restart or shutdown and
power up again.
The laptop is configured to boot from cd.
The live cd (fed15 + xfce) works perfectly in another pc.
I can mount the cd drive and look at the contents, unmount it
and eject the drive.
The same happens with another live cd (ubuntu 11.04).
Booting a live cd worked perfectly under the previous OS: fed14.
Before I file a bug report I would like to know if I am
overlooking some (configuration) quirk of fed15/gnome3,
something that has changed from fed14.
And if a file a bug, under what system or OS component.
Is Empathy supposed to start automatically?
I'm running on a F14->F15 system (preupgrade) and I have to manually
kick it off on login.
Sure, I could create a .desktop file in ~/.config/autostart, but I'd
like to know if there's something missing on my system.
Is there a nice way to prevent the accessibility panel icon from
showing? I have no problem with it existing for people that need it, but
I do not need it.
For now I have manually edited it out of
/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/panel.js and it is gone, but I would like
to know if there is an alternative.
I poked around gsettings and did not find any keys that would disable it
(nor did the java script give any hints on it looking at gsettings keys).
I wonder how to add panel applets to the panel in fallback mode of F15
Beta. There is no menu on right click.
If panel applets are no longer supported we need
* an announcement to all packagers
* to retire all applets and block them from F15 and rawhide
* gnome-panel properly obsolete the retired packages
* to have this documented in the release notes
Did I forget something?