What do you think fellow, design team members? Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-) I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??) ~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone. -------- Original message --------From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five years (!) of Fedora.next, our editions strategy is drifting away from "Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud") into more unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like "Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community rather than our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think?
This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :)
I think changes should always be considered and I'd love to see what changes and ideas might come from ideas in this group.
Máirín's points about the off-centeredness and multi-color requirements were noticeable from a new-comer's perspective immediately -- they're frustratingly limiting and weird.
That said, they are also /recognizably/ Fedora. Strong design aesthetic and cohesion were what attracted me to Fedora as my operating system of choice initially, and inspired me to contribute (in what little ways I have).
I'd be sad to see that familiar thing go, but I'm very excited to hear (and see!) what ideas people might bring forward.
On 10/4/18 9:05 PM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a
refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five years (!) of Fedora.next, our editions strategy is drifting away from "Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud")
into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like "Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community
rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think?
This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :)
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory jflory7@gmail.com
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Wordmark can be refreshed with a open source fonts with some tweaks. Perhaps dropping the infinity symbol for easier conversion to solely focusing on the "f"? Amazing how some viewer confused Fedora logo with Facebook. Possibly due to the color?
Those are all coming from my mind.
Luya
On 2018-10-04 07:05 PM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a
refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five years (!) of Fedora.next, our editions strategy is drifting away from "Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud")
into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like "Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community
rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think?
This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :)
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory jflory7@gmail.com
design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
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I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please?
Regards Onyeibo
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has
some
problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a
refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and
five
years (!) of Fedora.next, our editions strategy is drifting away
from
"Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud")
into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I
said at
Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd
like
"Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community
rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think?
This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :)
design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hi Onyeibo,
It's the Fedora logo itself that has issues. The other logos I mentioned were just something that had to be discussed in updating our logo docs that brought up the topic of changing the Fedora logo.
Cheers, ~m
On October 5, 2018 3:36:42 AM EDT, Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please?
Regards Onyeibo
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has
some
problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a
refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and
five
years (!) of Fedora.next, our editions strategy is drifting away
from
"Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud")
into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I
said at
Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd
like
"Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community
rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think?
This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :)
design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec... _______________________________________________ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
If we're ready for a change of identity then let's agree on what should be preserved (and what can be sacrificed). The infinity symbol seems very important to the project.
If I'm correct, perhaps, encasing that in a circle (or a rounded square) may provide basis for further conceptualization. The use of basic shapes appear to be the trend in recent icon themes. In any case, its going to be both challenging and interesting changing the fedora- logo.
Regards Onyeibo
On Fri, 2018-10-05 at 06:49 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Hi Onyeibo,
It's the Fedora logo itself that has issues. The other logos I mentioned were just something that had to be discussed in updating our logo docs that brought up the topic of changing the Fedora logo.
Cheers, ~m
On October 5, 2018 3:36:42 AM EDT, Onyeibo Oku < onyeibo@schemefusion.com> wrote:
I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please?
Regards Onyeibo
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has
some
problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in
designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a
refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and
five
years (!) of Fedora.next, our editions strategy is drifting away
from
"Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud")
into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I
said at
Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd
like
"Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community
rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think?
This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :)
design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
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On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 10:05:34PM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
So, next steps? Since this is visual, maybe a design ticket where ideas can be posted and discussed? Should I file that ticket?
Hi,
Just one question, which of the "parts" where we had trouble still exists? I mean where we had to extend the logo guidelines, cloud became very fast Atomic and looking to this logo it looks different to the other ones. The cloud version before matched much more to the other ones.
So why should we change a well established branding for some things that are shorter in life? I mean if I look around me, if I go the parking area of a university I definitely find some bike with an Fedora sticker and they actually know - thats Fedora and what it is and how long it took me to get to this point. With some of the points it would be so serious changes that I would have to begin at zero. Not to mention it would take us years, to equip all Ambassadors new.
So when there shall be done something it has to be carefully and I dont see that coming
br gnokii
Am 05.10.2018 um 17:49 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hi Onyeibo,
It's the Fedora logo itself that has issues. The other logos I mentioned were just something that had to be discussed in updating our logo docs that brought up the topic of changing the Fedora logo.
Cheers, ~m
On October 5, 2018 3:36:42 AM EDT, Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please? Regards Onyeibo On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote: What do you think fellow, design team members? Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-) I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??) ~m Sent from my phone, not an iphone. -------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" <jflory7@gmail.com> Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team <design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org> Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some problems: * It doesn't work well at small sizes * It doesn't work at all in a single color * The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs * The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font * I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a refresh. It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five years (!) of Fedora.next <http://Fedora.next>, our editions strategy is drifting away from "Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud") into more unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like "Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community rather than our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella". What do you think? This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too. It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct:https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines:https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives:https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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As long as the council is open to it, that seems like the right path fwd to me.
~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Miller" mattdm@fedoraproject.org To: "Discussions with the Fedora Council and community" council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: "Fedora Design Team" design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:29:27 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 10:05:34PM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
So, next steps? Since this is visual, maybe a design ticket where ideas can be posted and discussed? Should I file that ticket?
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hey gnokii!
So the parts where we have issues that still exist:
- It is a very common confusion between the Fedora logo and the Facebook logo. I see it in working with high school and college students, I get it from comments about my laptop stickers and T-shirts - a white lower case f on a medium blue background is unfortunately hard for us to own when a company with a reach of billions of daily users is our competition.
- the speech bubble. it's lopsided. it's hard to center. It's hard to fit into shapes. E.g. how do you fit the speech bubble on a hex sticker and have it look good - this was a recent challenge Micah worked on. Someone upstream in the hex sticker repo "helpfully" pushed a Fedora hex design that stripped the bubble from the logo entirely, against our usage guidelines - Micah caught it and is now working on convincing upstream to adopt one that adheres to our guidelines.
- there is no possible way to make the logomark one color. from simple things like one-color printing, to other things like providing one color icons and logos for conference websites and icon systems... it's a very annoying issue that comes up all the time.
- Printing the logo on darker backgrounds - people don't always go through our team, you know this well :) We end up with swag and other items all over the place that are against our logo guidelines, e.g., with thick white outlines along the logo that make it look weird so it stands out on a background that the blue color doesn't contrast well with. :(
- Because the logo has a number of challenging oddities that come up as you try to work with it, as you are well aware of :) it gets a lot of abuse / misuse so it requires a lot more hand-holding by our team even though we're not really resourced (as one of the teams in Fedora that is really 80% or more volunteer) to provide such a high touch level of support. A logo that was more straightforward to work with would - I hope - decrease the amount of design team handholding necessary for it to be reproduced correctly / require less specialized skills.
- For all these years it does kill me that the logo uses Bryant2, a proprietary font. A logo is so central to a brand, it's sort of the soul of a thing - and even though open source is a premier aspect of our identity, the very thing that expresses our identity showcases a font that is not, was created in Illustrator, was not created via an open community process, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't serve as an example that the open source collaborative way is the right way to do things.
I get what you're saying about the logos for the editions being different now. They used to be integrated into a system. I don't know the background of the Silverblue logo, but it does not follow our edition logo guidelines and unfortunately we weren't consulted about it (it is a beautiful logo, it's just a missed oppty.) I think at this point it is probably too late to change it because of the investment. It means though, since silverblue is IMHO the most critical edition for Fedora's future, that we'll have to deal with it, embrace it, and come up with yet another system for editions that is less tight than the cloud/atomic | server | workstation system we've had in the past couple of years or so. It's ok. As it was, the edition names were fairly generic ("server" "workstation" etc), Silverblue is a nice standalone name that identifies what it is and gives a bit more vibrancy to our 'portfolio.'
I would *strongly* push for logo changes that are honestly just an iteration of what we have, and would still recognizably look like Fedora. I would NOT support a clean slate, from scratch logo design process. You are very correct in that we have well-established branding. I want a refreshed logo that someone would look at and say, "Oh, it looks like Fedora cleaned up their logo, cool" not "What the heck is that? That doesn't look like Fedora? Is that a hat company?" Etc.
I played around with some ideas along these lines to show what I mean. When Matthew files the ticket I'll post them to it.
Does this make sense?
Cheers, ~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "S.Kemter" sirko.kemter@gmail.com To: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:30:56 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Hi,
Just one question, which of the "parts" where we had trouble still exists? I mean where we had to extend the logo guidelines, cloud became very fast Atomic and looking to this logo it looks different to the other ones. The cloud version before matched much more to the other ones.
So why should we change a well established branding for some things that are shorter in life? I mean if I look around me, if I go the parking area of a university I definitely find some bike with an Fedora sticker and they actually know - thats Fedora and what it is and how long it took me to get to this point. With some of the points it would be so serious changes that I would have to begin at zero. Not to mention it would take us years, to equip all Ambassadors new.
So when there shall be done something it has to be carefully and I dont see that coming
br gnokii
Am 05.10.2018 um 17:49 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hi Onyeibo,
It's the Fedora logo itself that has issues. The other logos I mentioned were just something that had to be discussed in updating our logo docs that brought up the topic of changing the Fedora logo.
Cheers, ~m
On October 5, 2018 3:36:42 AM EDT, Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please?
Regards Onyeibo
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some
problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five
years (!) of Fedora.next , our editions strategy is drifting away from
"Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud") into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at
Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like
"Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think? This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :) design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec... design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
Oh the one thing I forgot to mention, in all these emails! The weird thing where the Fedora logo in horizontal form, the logo is small and superscripted to the end of the logo. It's weird, makes the logomark+logotype lopsided / weight imbalanced, and.... it's weird. It's just weird.
If there was just one single teeny tiny eensy weensy surgical change we could make, I'd move the logomark to the *front* of the text (like 99.9% of normal horiz logos) and size it up so it was balanced.
~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Máirín Duffy" duffy@redhat.com To: "Fedora Design Team" design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:48:03 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Hey gnokii!
So the parts where we have issues that still exist:
- It is a very common confusion between the Fedora logo and the Facebook
logo. I see it in working with high school and college students, I get it from comments about my laptop stickers and T-shirts - a white lower case f on a medium blue background is unfortunately hard for us to own when a company with a reach of billions of daily users is our competition.
- the speech bubble. it's lopsided. it's hard to center. It's hard to fit
into shapes. E.g. how do you fit the speech bubble on a hex sticker and have it look good - this was a recent challenge Micah worked on. Someone upstream in the hex sticker repo "helpfully" pushed a Fedora hex design that stripped the bubble from the logo entirely, against our usage guidelines - Micah caught it and is now working on convincing upstream to adopt one that adheres to our guidelines.
- there is no possible way to make the logomark one color. from simple things
like one-color printing, to other things like providing one color icons and logos for conference websites and icon systems... it's a very annoying issue that comes up all the time.
- Printing the logo on darker backgrounds - people don't always go through
our team, you know this well :) We end up with swag and other items all over the place that are against our logo guidelines, e.g., with thick white outlines along the logo that make it look weird so it stands out on a background that the blue color doesn't contrast well with. :(
- Because the logo has a number of challenging oddities that come up as you
try to work with it, as you are well aware of :) it gets a lot of abuse / misuse so it requires a lot more hand-holding by our team even though we're not really resourced (as one of the teams in Fedora that is really 80% or more volunteer) to provide such a high touch level of support. A logo that was more straightforward to work with would - I hope - decrease the amount of design team handholding necessary for it to be reproduced correctly / require less specialized skills.
- For all these years it does kill me that the logo uses Bryant2, a
proprietary font. A logo is so central to a brand, it's sort of the soul of a thing - and even though open source is a premier aspect of our identity, the very thing that expresses our identity showcases a font that is not, was created in Illustrator, was not created via an open community process, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't serve as an example that the open source collaborative way is the right way to do things.
I get what you're saying about the logos for the editions being different now. They used to be integrated into a system. I don't know the background of the Silverblue logo, but it does not follow our edition logo guidelines and unfortunately we weren't consulted about it (it is a beautiful logo, it's just a missed oppty.) I think at this point it is probably too late to change it because of the investment. It means though, since silverblue is IMHO the most critical edition for Fedora's future, that we'll have to deal with it, embrace it, and come up with yet another system for editions that is less tight than the cloud/atomic | server | workstation system we've had in the past couple of years or so. It's ok. As it was, the edition names were fairly generic ("server" "workstation" etc), Silverblue is a nice standalone name that identifies what it is and gives a bit more vibrancy to our 'portfolio.'
I would *strongly* push for logo changes that are honestly just an iteration of what we have, and would still recognizably look like Fedora. I would NOT support a clean slate, from scratch logo design process. You are very correct in that we have well-established branding. I want a refreshed logo that someone would look at and say, "Oh, it looks like Fedora cleaned up their logo, cool" not "What the heck is that? That doesn't look like Fedora? Is that a hat company?" Etc.
I played around with some ideas along these lines to show what I mean. When Matthew files the ticket I'll post them to it.
Does this make sense?
Cheers, ~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "S.Kemter" sirko.kemter@gmail.com To: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:30:56 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Hi,
Just one question, which of the "parts" where we had trouble still exists? I mean where we had to extend the logo guidelines, cloud became very fast Atomic and looking to this logo it looks different to the other ones. The cloud version before matched much more to the other ones.
So why should we change a well established branding for some things that are shorter in life? I mean if I look around me, if I go the parking area of a university I definitely find some bike with an Fedora sticker and they actually know - thats Fedora and what it is and how long it took me to get to this point. With some of the points it would be so serious changes that I would have to begin at zero. Not to mention it would take us years, to equip all Ambassadors new.
So when there shall be done something it has to be carefully and I dont see that coming
br gnokii
Am 05.10.2018 um 17:49 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hi Onyeibo,
It's the Fedora logo itself that has issues. The other logos I mentioned were just something that had to be discussed in updating our logo docs that brought up the topic of changing the Fedora logo.
Cheers, ~m
On October 5, 2018 3:36:42 AM EDT, Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please?
Regards Onyeibo
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some
problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five
years (!) of Fedora.next , our editions strategy is drifting away from
"Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud") into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at
Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like
"Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think? This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :) design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec... design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
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maybe i can help too
________________________________ De: Máirín Duffy duffy@redhat.com Enviado: sexta-feira, 5 de outubro de 2018 14:52 Para: Fedora Design Team Assunto: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Oh the one thing I forgot to mention, in all these emails! The weird thing where the Fedora logo in horizontal form, the logo is small and superscripted to the end of the logo. It's weird, makes the logomark+logotype lopsided / weight imbalanced, and.... it's weird. It's just weird.
If there was just one single teeny tiny eensy weensy surgical change we could make, I'd move the logomark to the *front* of the text (like 99.9% of normal horiz logos) and size it up so it was balanced.
~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Máirín Duffy" duffy@redhat.com To: "Fedora Design Team" design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:48:03 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Hey gnokii!
So the parts where we have issues that still exist:
- It is a very common confusion between the Fedora logo and the Facebook
logo. I see it in working with high school and college students, I get it from comments about my laptop stickers and T-shirts - a white lower case f on a medium blue background is unfortunately hard for us to own when a company with a reach of billions of daily users is our competition.
- the speech bubble. it's lopsided. it's hard to center. It's hard to fit
into shapes. E.g. how do you fit the speech bubble on a hex sticker and have it look good - this was a recent challenge Micah worked on. Someone upstream in the hex sticker repo "helpfully" pushed a Fedora hex design that stripped the bubble from the logo entirely, against our usage guidelines - Micah caught it and is now working on convincing upstream to adopt one that adheres to our guidelines.
- there is no possible way to make the logomark one color. from simple things
like one-color printing, to other things like providing one color icons and logos for conference websites and icon systems... it's a very annoying issue that comes up all the time.
- Printing the logo on darker backgrounds - people don't always go through
our team, you know this well :) We end up with swag and other items all over the place that are against our logo guidelines, e.g., with thick white outlines along the logo that make it look weird so it stands out on a background that the blue color doesn't contrast well with. :(
- Because the logo has a number of challenging oddities that come up as you
try to work with it, as you are well aware of :) it gets a lot of abuse / misuse so it requires a lot more hand-holding by our team even though we're not really resourced (as one of the teams in Fedora that is really 80% or more volunteer) to provide such a high touch level of support. A logo that was more straightforward to work with would - I hope - decrease the amount of design team handholding necessary for it to be reproduced correctly / require less specialized skills.
- For all these years it does kill me that the logo uses Bryant2, a
proprietary font. A logo is so central to a brand, it's sort of the soul of a thing - and even though open source is a premier aspect of our identity, the very thing that expresses our identity showcases a font that is not, was created in Illustrator, was not created via an open community process, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't serve as an example that the open source collaborative way is the right way to do things.
I get what you're saying about the logos for the editions being different now. They used to be integrated into a system. I don't know the background of the Silverblue logo, but it does not follow our edition logo guidelines and unfortunately we weren't consulted about it (it is a beautiful logo, it's just a missed oppty.) I think at this point it is probably too late to change it because of the investment. It means though, since silverblue is IMHO the most critical edition for Fedora's future, that we'll have to deal with it, embrace it, and come up with yet another system for editions that is less tight than the cloud/atomic | server | workstation system we've had in the past couple of years or so. It's ok. As it was, the edition names were fairly generic ("server" "workstation" etc), Silverblue is a nice standalone name that identifies what it is and gives a bit more vibrancy to our 'portfolio.'
I would *strongly* push for logo changes that are honestly just an iteration of what we have, and would still recognizably look like Fedora. I would NOT support a clean slate, from scratch logo design process. You are very correct in that we have well-established branding. I want a refreshed logo that someone would look at and say, "Oh, it looks like Fedora cleaned up their logo, cool" not "What the heck is that? That doesn't look like Fedora? Is that a hat company?" Etc.
I played around with some ideas along these lines to show what I mean. When Matthew files the ticket I'll post them to it.
Does this make sense?
Cheers, ~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "S.Kemter" sirko.kemter@gmail.com To: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:30:56 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Hi,
Just one question, which of the "parts" where we had trouble still exists? I mean where we had to extend the logo guidelines, cloud became very fast Atomic and looking to this logo it looks different to the other ones. The cloud version before matched much more to the other ones.
So why should we change a well established branding for some things that are shorter in life? I mean if I look around me, if I go the parking area of a university I definitely find some bike with an Fedora sticker and they actually know - thats Fedora and what it is and how long it took me to get to this point. With some of the points it would be so serious changes that I would have to begin at zero. Not to mention it would take us years, to equip all Ambassadors new.
So when there shall be done something it has to be carefully and I dont see that coming
br gnokii
Am 05.10.2018 um 17:49 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hi Onyeibo,
It's the Fedora logo itself that has issues. The other logos I mentioned were just something that had to be discussed in updating our logo docs that brought up the topic of changing the Fedora logo.
Cheers, ~m
On October 5, 2018 3:36:42 AM EDT, Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please?
Regards Onyeibo
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some
problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five
years (!) of Fedora.next , our editions strategy is drifting away from
"Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud") into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at
Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like
"Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think? This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :) design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List
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-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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_______________________________________________ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
I'm ok with a change, but please don't start with the "simplified things" like Firefox did, that will finish in a blue balloon with an orange line around it. Also a all new logo could be a problem without proper marketing (I'm here, so I'm not going to let that happens).
Br,
Eduard Lucena
https://pagure.io/design/issue/620
On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 12:30:59PM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
As long as the council is open to it, that seems like the right path fwd to me.
~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Miller" mattdm@fedoraproject.org To: "Discussions with the Fedora Council and community" council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: "Fedora Design Team" design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:29:27 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 10:05:34PM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
So, next steps? Since this is visual, maybe a design ticket where ideas can be posted and discussed? Should I file that ticket?
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
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He Mo,
you missed the point, I did not ask where the weakness of the logo is. And Facebook is a funny argument, I noticed that to, as I was in Europe. Here no such problems. But I am the guy who looks in the trash for the flyer and I noticed that most people who made such comments know exactly its not FB. You missed even one point look at the little man who raises his right arm ;)
Its about not rushing it trough, its about thinking what will happen and who is inflicted and prevent that to much damage is done
Am 05.10.2018 um 23:48 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hey gnokii!
So the parts where we have issues that still exist:
It is a very common confusion between the Fedora logo and the Facebook logo. I see it in working with high school and college students, I get it from comments about my laptop stickers and T-shirts - a white lower case f on a medium blue background is unfortunately hard for us to own when a company with a reach of billions of daily users is our competition.
the speech bubble. it's lopsided. it's hard to center. It's hard to fit into shapes. E.g. how do you fit the speech bubble on a hex sticker and have it look good - this was a recent challenge Micah worked on. Someone upstream in the hex sticker repo "helpfully" pushed a Fedora hex design that stripped the bubble from the logo entirely, against our usage guidelines - Micah caught it and is now working on convincing upstream to adopt one that adheres to our guidelines.
there is no possible way to make the logomark one color. from simple things like one-color printing, to other things like providing one color icons and logos for conference websites and icon systems... it's a very annoying issue that comes up all the time.
Printing the logo on darker backgrounds - people don't always go through our team, you know this well :) We end up with swag and other items all over the place that are against our logo guidelines, e.g., with thick white outlines along the logo that make it look weird so it stands out on a background that the blue color doesn't contrast well with. :(
Because the logo has a number of challenging oddities that come up as you try to work with it, as you are well aware of :) it gets a lot of abuse / misuse so it requires a lot more hand-holding by our team even though we're not really resourced (as one of the teams in Fedora that is really 80% or more volunteer) to provide such a high touch level of support. A logo that was more straightforward to work with would - I hope - decrease the amount of design team handholding necessary for it to be reproduced correctly / require less specialized skills.
For all these years it does kill me that the logo uses Bryant2, a proprietary font. A logo is so central to a brand, it's sort of the soul of a thing - and even though open source is a premier aspect of our identity, the very thing that expresses our identity showcases a font that is not, was created in Illustrator, was not created via an open community process, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't serve as an example that the open source collaborative way is the right way to do things.
I get what you're saying about the logos for the editions being different now. They used to be integrated into a system. I don't know the background of the Silverblue logo, but it does not follow our edition logo guidelines and unfortunately we weren't consulted about it (it is a beautiful logo, it's just a missed oppty.) I think at this point it is probably too late to change it because of the investment. It means though, since silverblue is IMHO the most critical edition for Fedora's future, that we'll have to deal with it, embrace it, and come up with yet another system for editions that is less tight than the cloud/atomic | server | workstation system we've had in the past couple of years or so. It's ok. As it was, the edition names were fairly generic ("server" "workstation" etc), Silverblue is a nice standalone name that identifies what it is and gives a bit more vibrancy to our 'portfolio.'
I would *strongly* push for logo changes that are honestly just an iteration of what we have, and would still recognizably look like Fedora. I would NOT support a clean slate, from scratch logo design process. You are very correct in that we have well-established branding. I want a refreshed logo that someone would look at and say, "Oh, it looks like Fedora cleaned up their logo, cool" not "What the heck is that? That doesn't look like Fedora? Is that a hat company?" Etc.
I played around with some ideas along these lines to show what I mean. When Matthew files the ticket I'll post them to it.
Does this make sense?
Cheers, ~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "S.Kemter" sirko.kemter@gmail.com To: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:30:56 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Hi,
Just one question, which of the "parts" where we had trouble still exists? I mean where we had to extend the logo guidelines, cloud became very fast Atomic and looking to this logo it looks different to the other ones. The cloud version before matched much more to the other ones.
So why should we change a well established branding for some things that are shorter in life? I mean if I look around me, if I go the parking area of a university I definitely find some bike with an Fedora sticker and they actually know - thats Fedora and what it is and how long it took me to get to this point. With some of the points it would be so serious changes that I would have to begin at zero. Not to mention it would take us years, to equip all Ambassadors new.
So when there shall be done something it has to be carefully and I dont see that coming
br gnokii
Am 05.10.2018 um 17:49 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hi Onyeibo,
It's the Fedora logo itself that has issues. The other logos I mentioned were just something that had to be discussed in updating our logo docs that brought up the topic of changing the Fedora logo.
Cheers, ~m
On October 5, 2018 3:36:42 AM EDT, Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please?
Regards Onyeibo
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some
problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five
years (!) of Fedora.next , our editions strategy is drifting away from
"Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud") into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at
Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like
"Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think? This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :) design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec... design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Hello boys,
fedora concept are nice 😊 we just need a little golden ratio on it?
look at my whale sketch (maybe docker), offcourse it isnt painted XD ________________________________ De: S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com Enviado: sexta-feira, 5 de outubro de 2018 15:20 Para: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Assunto: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
He Mo,
you missed the point, I did not ask where the weakness of the logo is. And Facebook is a funny argument, I noticed that to, as I was in Europe. Here no such problems. But I am the guy who looks in the trash for the flyer and I noticed that most people who made such comments know exactly its not FB. You missed even one point look at the little man who raises his right arm ;)
Its about not rushing it trough, its about thinking what will happen and who is inflicted and prevent that to much damage is done
Am 05.10.2018 um 23:48 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hey gnokii!
So the parts where we have issues that still exist:
It is a very common confusion between the Fedora logo and the Facebook logo. I see it in working with high school and college students, I get it from comments about my laptop stickers and T-shirts - a white lower case f on a medium blue background is unfortunately hard for us to own when a company with a reach of billions of daily users is our competition.
the speech bubble. it's lopsided. it's hard to center. It's hard to fit into shapes. E.g. how do you fit the speech bubble on a hex sticker and have it look good - this was a recent challenge Micah worked on. Someone upstream in the hex sticker repo "helpfully" pushed a Fedora hex design that stripped the bubble from the logo entirely, against our usage guidelines - Micah caught it and is now working on convincing upstream to adopt one that adheres to our guidelines.
there is no possible way to make the logomark one color. from simple things like one-color printing, to other things like providing one color icons and logos for conference websites and icon systems... it's a very annoying issue that comes up all the time.
Printing the logo on darker backgrounds - people don't always go through our team, you know this well :) We end up with swag and other items all over the place that are against our logo guidelines, e.g., with thick white outlines along the logo that make it look weird so it stands out on a background that the blue color doesn't contrast well with. :(
Because the logo has a number of challenging oddities that come up as you try to work with it, as you are well aware of :) it gets a lot of abuse / misuse so it requires a lot more hand-holding by our team even though we're not really resourced (as one of the teams in Fedora that is really 80% or more volunteer) to provide such a high touch level of support. A logo that was more straightforward to work with would - I hope - decrease the amount of design team handholding necessary for it to be reproduced correctly / require less specialized skills.
For all these years it does kill me that the logo uses Bryant2, a proprietary font. A logo is so central to a brand, it's sort of the soul of a thing - and even though open source is a premier aspect of our identity, the very thing that expresses our identity showcases a font that is not, was created in Illustrator, was not created via an open community process, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't serve as an example that the open source collaborative way is the right way to do things.
I get what you're saying about the logos for the editions being different now. They used to be integrated into a system. I don't know the background of the Silverblue logo, but it does not follow our edition logo guidelines and unfortunately we weren't consulted about it (it is a beautiful logo, it's just a missed oppty.) I think at this point it is probably too late to change it because of the investment. It means though, since silverblue is IMHO the most critical edition for Fedora's future, that we'll have to deal with it, embrace it, and come up with yet another system for editions that is less tight than the cloud/atomic | server | workstation system we've had in the past couple of years or so. It's ok. As it was, the edition names were fairly generic ("server" "workstation" etc), Silverblue is a nice standalone name that identifies what it is and gives a bit more vibrancy to our 'portfolio.'
I would *strongly* push for logo changes that are honestly just an iteration of what we have, and would still recognizably look like Fedora. I would NOT support a clean slate, from scratch logo design process. You are very correct in that we have well-established branding. I want a refreshed logo that someone would look at and say, "Oh, it looks like Fedora cleaned up their logo, cool" not "What the heck is that? That doesn't look like Fedora? Is that a hat company?" Etc.
I played around with some ideas along these lines to show what I mean. When Matthew files the ticket I'll post them to it.
Does this make sense?
Cheers, ~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "S.Kemter" sirko.kemter@gmail.com To: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:30:56 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Hi,
Just one question, which of the "parts" where we had trouble still exists? I mean where we had to extend the logo guidelines, cloud became very fast Atomic and looking to this logo it looks different to the other ones. The cloud version before matched much more to the other ones.
So why should we change a well established branding for some things that are shorter in life? I mean if I look around me, if I go the parking area of a university I definitely find some bike with an Fedora sticker and they actually know - thats Fedora and what it is and how long it took me to get to this point. With some of the points it would be so serious changes that I would have to begin at zero. Not to mention it would take us years, to equip all Ambassadors new.
So when there shall be done something it has to be carefully and I dont see that coming
br gnokii
Am 05.10.2018 um 17:49 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hi Onyeibo,
It's the Fedora logo itself that has issues. The other logos I mentioned were just something that had to be discussed in updating our logo docs that brought up the topic of changing the Fedora logo.
Cheers, ~m
On October 5, 2018 3:36:42 AM EDT, Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please?
Regards Onyeibo
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some
problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five
years (!) of Fedora.next , our editions strategy is drifting away from
"Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud") into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at
Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like
"Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think? This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :) design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List
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-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Oh, ez fix!
I guess we can redraw it, it looks ok, the infinity and the F looks fine i guess… or we can choose some animal as mascot?
im sorry to write direct to you, but i dont understand all that discussion because a logo draw lol XD
this are some works, im amateur,. do you think that i can join the team? ________________________________ De: Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Enviado: sexta-feira, 5 de outubro de 2018 15:19 Para: Fedora Design Team Cc: Discussions with the Fedora Council and community Assunto: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
https://pagure.io/design/issue/620
On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 12:30:59PM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
As long as the council is open to it, that seems like the right path fwd to me.
~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Miller" mattdm@fedoraproject.org To: "Discussions with the Fedora Council and community" council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: "Fedora Design Team" design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:29:27 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 10:05:34PM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
So, next steps? Since this is visual, maybe a design ticket where ideas can be posted and discussed? Should I file that ticket?
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
I’m sorry for spamming, but i really like the golden ratio concept.
maybe we can work on a golden ratio fedora logo?
(this images i picked on behance)
________________________________ De: Francis Angonesse francis.agn@outlook.com Enviado: sexta-feira, 5 de outubro de 2018 16:24 Para: Fedora Design Team Assunto: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Oh, ez fix!
I guess we can redraw it, it looks ok, the infinity and the F looks fine i guess… or we can choose some animal as mascot?
im sorry to write direct to you, but i dont understand all that discussion because a logo draw lol XD
this are some works, im amateur,. do you think that i can join the team? ________________________________ De: Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Enviado: sexta-feira, 5 de outubro de 2018 15:19 Para: Fedora Design Team Cc: Discussions with the Fedora Council and community Assunto: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
https://pagure.io/design/issue/620
On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 12:30:59PM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
As long as the council is open to it, that seems like the right path fwd to me.
~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Miller" mattdm@fedoraproject.org To: "Discussions with the Fedora Council and community" council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: "Fedora Design Team" design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:29:27 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 10:05:34PM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
So, next steps? Since this is visual, maybe a design ticket where ideas can be posted and discussed? Should I file that ticket?
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
Let's please avoid "hello boys" — not all of us here are boys.
On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 06:03:34PM +0000, Francis Angonesse wrote:
Hello boys,
fedora concept are nice 😊 we just need a little golden ratio on it?
look at my whale sketch (maybe docker), offcourse it isnt painted XD ________________________________ De: S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com Enviado: sexta-feira, 5 de outubro de 2018 15:20 Para: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Assunto: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
He Mo,
you missed the point, I did not ask where the weakness of the logo is. And Facebook is a funny argument, I noticed that to, as I was in Europe. Here no such problems. But I am the guy who looks in the trash for the flyer and I noticed that most people who made such comments know exactly its not FB. You missed even one point look at the little man who raises his right arm ;)
Its about not rushing it trough, its about thinking what will happen and who is inflicted and prevent that to much damage is done
Am 05.10.2018 um 23:48 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hey gnokii!
So the parts where we have issues that still exist:
It is a very common confusion between the Fedora logo and the Facebook logo. I see it in working with high school and college students, I get it from comments about my laptop stickers and T-shirts - a white lower case f on a medium blue background is unfortunately hard for us to own when a company with a reach of billions of daily users is our competition.
the speech bubble. it's lopsided. it's hard to center. It's hard to fit into shapes. E.g. how do you fit the speech bubble on a hex sticker and have it look good - this was a recent challenge Micah worked on. Someone upstream in the hex sticker repo "helpfully" pushed a Fedora hex design that stripped the bubble from the logo entirely, against our usage guidelines - Micah caught it and is now working on convincing upstream to adopt one that adheres to our guidelines.
there is no possible way to make the logomark one color. from simple things like one-color printing, to other things like providing one color icons and logos for conference websites and icon systems... it's a very annoying issue that comes up all the time.
Printing the logo on darker backgrounds - people don't always go through our team, you know this well :) We end up with swag and other items all over the place that are against our logo guidelines, e.g., with thick white outlines along the logo that make it look weird so it stands out on a background that the blue color doesn't contrast well with. :(
Because the logo has a number of challenging oddities that come up as you try to work with it, as you are well aware of :) it gets a lot of abuse / misuse so it requires a lot more hand-holding by our team even though we're not really resourced (as one of the teams in Fedora that is really 80% or more volunteer) to provide such a high touch level of support. A logo that was more straightforward to work with would - I hope - decrease the amount of design team handholding necessary for it to be reproduced correctly / require less specialized skills.
For all these years it does kill me that the logo uses Bryant2, a proprietary font. A logo is so central to a brand, it's sort of the soul of a thing - and even though open source is a premier aspect of our identity, the very thing that expresses our identity showcases a font that is not, was created in Illustrator, was not created via an open community process, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't serve as an example that the open source collaborative way is the right way to do things.
I get what you're saying about the logos for the editions being different now. They used to be integrated into a system. I don't know the background of the Silverblue logo, but it does not follow our edition logo guidelines and unfortunately we weren't consulted about it (it is a beautiful logo, it's just a missed oppty.) I think at this point it is probably too late to change it because of the investment. It means though, since silverblue is IMHO the most critical edition for Fedora's future, that we'll have to deal with it, embrace it, and come up with yet another system for editions that is less tight than the cloud/atomic | server | workstation system we've had in the past couple of years or so. It's ok. As it was, the edition names were fairly generic ("server" "workstation" etc), Silverblue is a nice standalone name that identifies what it is and gives a bit more vibrancy to our 'portfolio.'
I would *strongly* push for logo changes that are honestly just an iteration of what we have, and would still recognizably look like Fedora. I would NOT support a clean slate, from scratch logo design process. You are very correct in that we have well-established branding. I want a refreshed logo that someone would look at and say, "Oh, it looks like Fedora cleaned up their logo, cool" not "What the heck is that? That doesn't look like Fedora? Is that a hat company?" Etc.
I played around with some ideas along these lines to show what I mean. When Matthew files the ticket I'll post them to it.
Does this make sense?
Cheers, ~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "S.Kemter" sirko.kemter@gmail.com To: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:30:56 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Hi,
Just one question, which of the "parts" where we had trouble still exists? I mean where we had to extend the logo guidelines, cloud became very fast Atomic and looking to this logo it looks different to the other ones. The cloud version before matched much more to the other ones.
So why should we change a well established branding for some things that are shorter in life? I mean if I look around me, if I go the parking area of a university I definitely find some bike with an Fedora sticker and they actually know - thats Fedora and what it is and how long it took me to get to this point. With some of the points it would be so serious changes that I would have to begin at zero. Not to mention it would take us years, to equip all Ambassadors new.
So when there shall be done something it has to be carefully and I dont see that coming
br gnokii
Am 05.10.2018 um 17:49 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hi Onyeibo,
It's the Fedora logo itself that has issues. The other logos I mentioned were just something that had to be discussed in updating our logo docs that brought up the topic of changing the Fedora logo.
Cheers, ~m
On October 5, 2018 3:36:42 AM EDT, Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please?
Regards Onyeibo
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some
problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five
years (!) of Fedora.next , our editions strategy is drifting away from
"Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud") into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at
Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like
"Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think? This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :) design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List
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Fedora Code of Conduct - getfedora.orghttps://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html getfedora.org The Fedora community is made up of a mixture of professionals and volunteers from all over the world, working on every aspect of the distribution from coding through to marketing.
Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec... design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Oh, im sorry.
I didnt try to ofend anyone, i was trying to look “nice” 😊
my english are not perfect.
I’m already on fedora design team, but i never introduced my self XD
wheres the IRC adress? 😊
________________________________ De: Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Enviado: sexta-feira, 5 de outubro de 2018 16:55 Para: Fedora Design Team Assunto: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Let's please avoid "hello boys" — not all of us here are boys.
On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 06:03:34PM +0000, Francis Angonesse wrote:
Hello boys,
fedora concept are nice 😊 we just need a little golden ratio on it?
look at my whale sketch (maybe docker), offcourse it isnt painted XD ________________________________ De: S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com Enviado: sexta-feira, 5 de outubro de 2018 15:20 Para: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Assunto: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
He Mo,
you missed the point, I did not ask where the weakness of the logo is. And Facebook is a funny argument, I noticed that to, as I was in Europe. Here no such problems. But I am the guy who looks in the trash for the flyer and I noticed that most people who made such comments know exactly its not FB. You missed even one point look at the little man who raises his right arm ;)
Its about not rushing it trough, its about thinking what will happen and who is inflicted and prevent that to much damage is done
Am 05.10.2018 um 23:48 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hey gnokii!
So the parts where we have issues that still exist:
It is a very common confusion between the Fedora logo and the Facebook logo. I see it in working with high school and college students, I get it from comments about my laptop stickers and T-shirts - a white lower case f on a medium blue background is unfortunately hard for us to own when a company with a reach of billions of daily users is our competition.
the speech bubble. it's lopsided. it's hard to center. It's hard to fit into shapes. E.g. how do you fit the speech bubble on a hex sticker and have it look good - this was a recent challenge Micah worked on. Someone upstream in the hex sticker repo "helpfully" pushed a Fedora hex design that stripped the bubble from the logo entirely, against our usage guidelines - Micah caught it and is now working on convincing upstream to adopt one that adheres to our guidelines.
there is no possible way to make the logomark one color. from simple things like one-color printing, to other things like providing one color icons and logos for conference websites and icon systems... it's a very annoying issue that comes up all the time.
Printing the logo on darker backgrounds - people don't always go through our team, you know this well :) We end up with swag and other items all over the place that are against our logo guidelines, e.g., with thick white outlines along the logo that make it look weird so it stands out on a background that the blue color doesn't contrast well with. :(
Because the logo has a number of challenging oddities that come up as you try to work with it, as you are well aware of :) it gets a lot of abuse / misuse so it requires a lot more hand-holding by our team even though we're not really resourced (as one of the teams in Fedora that is really 80% or more volunteer) to provide such a high touch level of support. A logo that was more straightforward to work with would - I hope - decrease the amount of design team handholding necessary for it to be reproduced correctly / require less specialized skills.
For all these years it does kill me that the logo uses Bryant2, a proprietary font. A logo is so central to a brand, it's sort of the soul of a thing - and even though open source is a premier aspect of our identity, the very thing that expresses our identity showcases a font that is not, was created in Illustrator, was not created via an open community process, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't serve as an example that the open source collaborative way is the right way to do things.
I get what you're saying about the logos for the editions being different now. They used to be integrated into a system. I don't know the background of the Silverblue logo, but it does not follow our edition logo guidelines and unfortunately we weren't consulted about it (it is a beautiful logo, it's just a missed oppty.) I think at this point it is probably too late to change it because of the investment. It means though, since silverblue is IMHO the most critical edition for Fedora's future, that we'll have to deal with it, embrace it, and come up with yet another system for editions that is less tight than the cloud/atomic | server | workstation system we've had in the past couple of years or so. It's ok. As it was, the edition names were fairly generic ("server" "workstation" etc), Silverblue is a nice standalone name that identifies what it is and gives a bit more vibrancy to our 'portfolio.'
I would *strongly* push for logo changes that are honestly just an iteration of what we have, and would still recognizably look like Fedora. I would NOT support a clean slate, from scratch logo design process. You are very correct in that we have well-established branding. I want a refreshed logo that someone would look at and say, "Oh, it looks like Fedora cleaned up their logo, cool" not "What the heck is that? That doesn't look like Fedora? Is that a hat company?" Etc.
I played around with some ideas along these lines to show what I mean. When Matthew files the ticket I'll post them to it.
Does this make sense?
Cheers, ~m
----- Original Message -----
From: "S.Kemter" sirko.kemter@gmail.com To: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 12:30:56 PM Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
Hi,
Just one question, which of the "parts" where we had trouble still exists? I mean where we had to extend the logo guidelines, cloud became very fast Atomic and looking to this logo it looks different to the other ones. The cloud version before matched much more to the other ones.
So why should we change a well established branding for some things that are shorter in life? I mean if I look around me, if I go the parking area of a university I definitely find some bike with an Fedora sticker and they actually know - thats Fedora and what it is and how long it took me to get to this point. With some of the points it would be so serious changes that I would have to begin at zero. Not to mention it would take us years, to equip all Ambassadors new.
So when there shall be done something it has to be carefully and I dont see that coming
br gnokii
Am 05.10.2018 um 17:49 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
Hi Onyeibo,
It's the Fedora logo itself that has issues. The other logos I mentioned were just something that had to be discussed in updating our logo docs that brought up the topic of changing the Fedora logo.
Cheers, ~m
On October 5, 2018 3:36:42 AM EDT, Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
I fail to appreciate the points in this discussion without visuals Can someone point me to he offending graphics? URLs please?
Regards Onyeibo
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 22:05 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
What do you think fellow, design team members?
Full disclosure, I brought this up to Matthew yesterday when we were discussing the ticket on converting the logo guidelines to asciidoc. We realized they have to be updated with some of the new stuff we've been working on (Fedora IoT logo, Fedora CoreOS logo, etc). And I complained about how I wish I could update the logo too :-)
I think a lot of us have struggled with the inability to do one color and the off-centeredness of the bubble. (And wouldn't an open source font be nice??)
~m
Sent from my phone, not an iphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: "Justin W. Flory" jflory7@gmail.com Date: 10/4/18 5:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Fedora Design Team design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: [Design-team] Re: Considering a logo refresh
On 10/4/18 5:02 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
Our "freedom + infinity + voice" logo is awesome -- but it also has some
problems:
- It doesn't work well at small sizes
- It doesn't work at all in a single color
- The "voice" bubble means it's hard to center visually in designs
- The Fedora wordmark is based on a non-open-source font
- I'm tired of explaining that it's not Facebook
As much as I love our "classic" logo, I think it may be time for a refresh.
It's not just about problems -- as we're getting into Year 15, and five
years (!) of Fedora.next , our editions strategy is drifting away from
"Fedora + logical thing" (like "Fedora Server" or "Fedora Cloud") into more
unique brands like "Fedora CoreOS" or "Fedora Silverblue". As I said at
Flock, the important thing about Fedora to me is the _people_ — I'd like
"Fedora" to be more assocated with the project and the community rather than
our software artifacts. I'd love to have a logo which can work as a "community umbrella".
What do you think? This logic makes sense to me. I'm also open-minded to a 2018 refresh. There should probably be some level of engagement with the Fedora Design Team on this too.
It is too bad tattoos aren't as easy to update as Fedora. :) design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List
[https://getfedora.org/static/images/fedora.png]https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
Fedora Code of Conduct - getfedora.orghttps://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html getfedora.org The Fedora community is made up of a mixture of professionals and volunteers from all over the world, working on every aspect of the distribution from coding through to marketing.
[https://getfedora.org/static/images/fedora.png]https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
Fedora Code of Conduct - getfedora.orghttps://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html getfedora.org The Fedora community is made up of a mixture of professionals and volunteers from all over the world, working on every aspect of the distribution from coding through to marketing.
Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec... design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ design-team mailing list -- design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/design-team@lists.fedoraprojec...
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