Hello Mo

This logo has some modifications that Ben request on the weekly meetings for FUDcon, using as base the one you made.

Saludos

Hello,

...

This logo has some modifications that Ben request on the weekly meetings for FUDcon, using as base the one you made.

What are the modifications? The one gnokii and I came up with were because of Ben's concern that the feathers were too indicative of Native American headdresses.

Is there any public log I can refer to in order to understand what happened?

I fear he never saw ur proposal, thats why we didnt get feedback on it. I know that something went wrong since around 14 days. When in the last meeting not happend such a fight for senseless things, I had said or asked about it ;)

br gnokii

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On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 16:58 -0430, María Leandro wrote:

I only remove 2 feathers from the bottom side, nothing else was changed and that's why I send the mockup everywhere, to get feedback.

Good.

if you see my mail, I say that this logo was made by the team, i only change what was asked and ask for feedback. is the same logo with a microscopic change; if was a bad thing to make this changes, forgive me.

We work as a team and that is important, but we also do need to identify someone who is accountable for seeing this design through the completion. Is that you, is that gnokii, or do we need someone to step up and take ownership of this project to figure out the next step?

It might have been better to ask for a status update on the logo design since the process was already happening here on the list but taking the initative to move this forward as you have is appreciated.

I do not see a ticket for the Blacksburg logo in our trac queue besides the original SVG request Ian filled (https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/190), forgive me if I am missing it.

FUDcon meetings are held on wednesdays, everyone is invited.

Understood, and I very much appreciate your taking the time to send this out via mailing list to those of us who cannot attend every Fedora meeting, especially during the two weeks before our beta release which is a very hectic time for last-minute changes.

~m

On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 17:14 -0430, María Leandro wrote:

Reopen the ticket, which was closed, and add all sources.

https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/190

Okay, I'll pull the logo gnokii and I worked on out of the comps sheet and add it with the SVG to that ticket, thanks for the link.

    We work as a team and that is important, but we also do need
    to identify
    someone who is accountable for seeing this design through the
    completion. Is that you, is that gnokii, or do we need someone
    to step
    up and take ownership of this project to figure out the next
    step?

there is no need for that, we will have more important task where we will need more help which are, banners, t-shirts and more.

Okay, I am assuming then since you haven't indicated otherwise that it is okay to move forward with the design we'd already worked out, so as noted above I'll update the ticket with that and take ownership for getting Ben's final approval on the logo specifically.

All those tickets are already open (a while ago) and communication happens since tickets send a reminder through mail and IRC :)

It seems a lot of discussion has been happening about this (and other fudcon-related projects) outside of the ticket system so the automated ticket comment notifications would not have been much help. (I'm just as guilty of this as anybody else.)

Should we be treating the ticket system as the canonical place to have discussions then? I see discussions scattered across this mailing list, IRC, other mailing lists, and even Google Docs (I think this is a very bad habit and is not open source)... it makes it harder for folks to participate or even just follow along when it's not clear what's going on and where it's happening.

Do folks get ticket mails for all team tickets or only the tickets they're cc'ed on? (If the latter that solution could be an issue?)

What does everybody else think?

Be the owner of a ticket doesn't mean that is the only one that can do it, once again, that's why we are a team.... right?

It doesn't. It does mean, however, the person who owns the ticket should be communicated with so we're all on the same page and don't duplicate efforts. A ticket-owner doesn't necessarily have to be the one doing the artwork but I think they should be the one pushing the project forward and making sure it happens at the very least; if that isn't happening though, and there's a ticket you're interested in working on, it's good to reassign the ticket to yourself (after communicating with the ticket owner) so folks know it's not neglected. We can work as a team when playing ball, but not everyone can hold the ball at the same time!

We do what we can mo :)

Much appreciated.

~m

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 07:08 -0430, María Leandro wrote:

Tickets are already open, a while ago, but stop until logo is aproved by Ben.

Except for the logo one which was closed. (now reopened)

    It seems a lot of discussion has been happening about this
    (and other fudcon-related projects) outside of the ticket
    system so the automated ticket comment notifications would not
    have been much help. (I'm just as guilty of this as anybody
    else.

Not too much really, with FUDcon India I have been only help, local team has done everything, same with Milan. With Blacksburg we have time, but things have been a bit rush (for logo and after people give their feedback) flyers since Ben want to make a campaing at Vtec fast (a couple in fact).

A lot of discussion (that I was involved in) took place on IRC and via email that wasn't written up in the ticket, which confused me later -- even though I was part of the discussions in the first place, I didn't remember everything. I am suggesting a process to avoid similar problems in the future. Had a responsible party (which I understand now did not exist) taken ownership of the ticket and took the time to take the notes (either sent in the ticket or here to the list) then we would not have had this confusion over the status of the Blacksburg logo in the first place.

The local Pune & Milan teams did a good job of sending logo designs to this list for approval; there were folks identified to be responsible for the designs to make sure they happened and they did (Suchakra & Samuele.) This is the general way things should happen, I think. However, this was not the case with Blacksburg, which is why I am suggesting that in the future we identify someone responsible and why I took ownership of the ticket.

That's all. I know your time is precious (as all of our time is) so I want to solve the problem when I see work duplicated that could have been avoided.

Same with other meetings, everyone is invited as I said, I have only been atent to other tasks since mine where finish or solved by other team members.

It goes without saying that everyone is invited to a meeting in Fedora and that not all of us have the luxury of time / position on the planet to attend them all; it's appreciated when folks who have the time to do so also take the time to pass information along to those of us who do not so we can still participate.

    Should we be treating the ticket system as the canonical place
    to have
    discussions then? I see discussions scattered across this
    mailing list,
    IRC, other mailing lists, and even Google Docs (I think this
    is a very
    bad habit and is not open source)... it makes it harder for
    folks to
    participate or even just follow along when it's not clear
    what's going
    on and where it's happening.

That's Milans particular issue, even if everyone wanted to dialogue with them and make them use the regular channels, has been almost imposible. I only got Samuele to send a mail to all mail list after he went back from vacations, updates are on the mail list already. The rest has been openly, and I hope Blacksburg be too.

This is a problem.

Yeah, that's why I have post everymail list, blogs and more, to get feedback beyond our mail list, tickets and more. Once again, I'm sorry if I made a mistake.

Thank you, it has certainly moved the ticket forward. You did exactly the right thing; there was no ticket, no assigned owner, no status update so you did the very best thing you could do. I am sorry for my initial confusion as there were emails I was sure had been sent to this list; when I looked them up I saw the list was removed from the CC for some reason.

~m

2011/9/14 Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org

The owner of the Blacksburg logo design ticket should have passed the proposal over to Ben. I don't know who owns the ticket. It could have been our fault for not passing the decision over. I had thought your email was cc'ed to the list gnokii but it wasn't.

Np, at the end, FUDcon logo is decided by the organizators, not the Design team. We can only provide options :)

Tatica, if you're the owner of the ticket then it's up to you what you'd like to do. I am not a fan of the proposed logo; it's based on a scratch drawing and I think the one gnokii and I came up with is a stronger design.

https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/190

I'm not the design ticket owner, I will email or ping Ian, my mistake to help

On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 23:11 +0200, S.Kemter wrote:

...

I fear he never saw ur proposal, thats why we didnt get feedback on it. I

know

...

that something went wrong since around 14 days. When in the last meeting not happend such a fight for senseless things, I

had

...

said or asked about it ;)

We have a mailing list too; the meeting isn't the only time to bring up stuff and is probably not the best...

I send the mail just after make the mockup and share the info through everywhere I know to try get more feedback.

Once again, my mistake

At this point I'd prefer to drop meetings entirely and just have weekly status mails sent to the list since we were already having weeks of meeting attendance issues. The list is better for everyone across timezones to keep up with everything going on I think. Any opinions?

meetings where fine at the begining, and should be fine. Perhaps not weekly, if meetings aren't good enough then we have mail lists (which we are using now), so consider that everything is a plus for communication.

Once again, if I made a mistake, sorry

~m

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2011/9/15 Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org

On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 17:08 -0430, María Leandro wrote:

...

meetings where fine at the begining, and should be fine. Perhaps not weekly, if meetings aren't good enough then we have mail lists (which we are using now), so consider that everything is a plus for communication.

Compared to the age of the team we have not been running meetings very long; it's only recently gotten to the point I worry about the meeting being a waste of time because so few attend (or self-admittedly 'half-attend.') If it's not fun we shouldn't be doing it, I think; if it was fun attendance would be higher, I think.

If we are having (weekly | biweekly | monthly) meetings then what should we be using them for?

Maybe we could have a weekly gathering time, but rather than running a formal meeting we can just schedule it as a kind of social hour you can show up to if you want a critique or feedback on a design? So if you can only make it once a month, no problem. But you don't need to be there to keep up or to pose a question or to give your status; you can feel comfortable doing so on the mailing list at your own pace instead.

a social hour is the same that a meeting, ask people to gather at a particular hour might be the problem. Other idea is to set up days where people can hang at any-time. gnokii, elad and even myself now that I got time and internet are pretty much always at the IRC channel helping people and chating, So a day can be set down completely where, if there are special things to be reminded or set up, a wikipage call -agenda- can be set where this doubts, ideas or anything can be placed, and then someone at the end of the day (I can do it) send that -agenga- to the mail, to be discussed as the "weekly discussions" instead a weekly meeting.

That will not only give free of time for our team, but also will help us to expand our meetings, include those who not even can login into IRC (I was one of those) and why not, give us a bit of time to think our answers, find more resources and google more ideas :)

~m

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btw, did you just reasign all tickets I open to you?

Hello,

I dont like, what happen in that thread!

First of all, notifications are sent from the ticket system only to the owner. So when there are working more ppl on it as the owner himself, there should be communication what is the status. Sure the fudcon meetings are open for everyone, what not means everyone can join. So if there not all in that meeting the person who was there should communicate to the ppl they involved what happend with things they are important to ur work.

From my point of view both of you trying to prove that the other one is guilty or at least the opposite has that feeling and try to prove that he isnt guilty. Heh we are not in a court!

so stop that! It makes no sense we cant change what happend, its history. We can only look at it and anylize it, so that it not happen in future again.

So when there made someone a failure is not armageddon, we are humans we make and have failures.

br gnokii

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 07:22 -0430, María Leandro wrote:

...

btw, did you just reasign all tickets I open to you?

Could you give me specific ticket URLs?

I specifically took ticket #190 for the logo. I do not have time/bandwidth to own the poster and t-shirt tickets.

https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/190

I received no ticket re-assignment emails other than the one I made myself via #190.

Thanks, ~m

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