To further add to my previous email, don't forget about your core user
base. Since you are aiming for the "novice user" what happens to the
"expert/intermediate user base"?
Do you just neglect them and they just accept all the changes you make in
order to make Fedora more "Novice friendly"?
So what happens to the guy that's been doing things the way it's been done
for 10+ years and you change it on him and he has to relearn everything all
over again?
You now just turned and intermediate/expert user into a novice user. I find
that counterproductive.
Just shedding a different way of thinking on the matter. I respect
everyone's contributions I'm just making my own personal opinion and voice
heard since that what is so awesome about this community is that I can say
how I feel and contribute my opinion while it may not be taken as "Oh my
god this guy is so right what were we thinking?" it's definitely something
to think about.
Thanks,
Dan
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:18 AM, Dan Mashal <dan.mashal(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: "Simply because we want to make Fedora easier to use. For novice
users, the kernel versions are just noise, they mean nothing, and probably
cause a lot of confusion. Especially if they dual-boot, they wouldn't know
what to choose, and might actually boot an older kernel regularly.
Furthermore, you can always revert to the current behaviour by simply
editing some configuration files."
If you wanted to make it easier for "novice users" then why do novice
users have to do so much work out of the box to get stuff working? This is
such a minor fix for "novice users".
"Novice users" use Ubuntu. Think about why. I understand that Ubuntu and
Fedora have different "religious" philosophies but this is reality without
getting too in the the actual "religion" of FOSS and the 4 foundations of
Fedora.
Quote "Without release number? what if you have both Rawhide and 17
installed?
I think it should be Fedora $number"
So a "novice user" would have Rawhide installed? :)
A novice user just wants it to "work" "out of the box".
I mean it's really that simple.
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Elad Alfassa <elad(a)fedoraproject.org>wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 5:08 AM, Dan Mashal <dan.mashal(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Personal opinion from a longtime fedora user:
>>
>> 1) Why do I have to go to a separate menu to choose a different kernel?
>> Granted, I don't often have to choose an older or custom kernel but "If
it
>> ain't broke don't fix it."
>>
> Simply because we want to make Fedora easier to use. For novice users,
> the kernel versions are just noise, they mean nothing, and probably cause a
> lot of confusion. Especially if they dual-boot, they wouldn't know what to
> choose, and might actually boot an older kernel regularly.
> Furthermore, you can always revert to the current behaviour by simply
> editing some configuration files.
>
>> 2) It should just be "Fedora".
>>
> Without release number? what if you have both Rawhide and 17 installed?
> I think it should be Fedora $number
>
>> 3) I don't like the way the grub menu looks right now with or without
>> the theme. I like the old text non ubuntu/debian looking grub menu but
>> that's just the oldskool person in me talking.
>>
> Well, I like how it looks with the theme, but if you don't like it you
> could always make your own theme to make it look like you want, or talk
> with upstream grub and explain to them why you think the default doesn't
> look good.
>
>> EOF
>>
>> Dan
>> On Jun 19, 2012 1:07 AM, "Elad Alfassa" <elad(a)fedoraproject.org>
wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Máirín Duffy
<duffy(a)fedoraproject.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Hi Elad,
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, 2012-06-18 at 18:07 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
>>> >> refer to this thread in -devel:
>>> >>
>>>
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html
>>> >>
>>> >> As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear
in
>>> >> the "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks
every time you
>>> >> run a kernel update.
>>> >
>>> > Yeh, it definitely sounds like broken behavior. Maybe we should get
>>> > together with Josh Boyer and Peter Jones and see if we can't figure
>>> out
>>> > some way to have older kernels go under the submenu.
>>> >
>>> >> Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is
called
>>> >> Fedora.
>>> >> It should be something like Fedora (with Linux kernel version
here).
>>> >
>>> >> What is the stand of the design team on this?
>>> >
>>> > Well, fwiw, I think you're correct, it should just be
'Fedora' (Maybe
>>> > Fedora + $RELEASE_NUMBER) not 'Fedora Linux.' However, I think
the
>>> > kernel versions should be in the submenu with, if I understand
>>> > correctly, the older kernels listed out, but the newest one should
>>> just
>>> > say Fedora. Is that too extreme?
>>> Sounds reasonable. Show kernel versions only when they are really
>>> needed.
>>> >
>>> > ~m
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > design-team mailing list
>>> > design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>> >
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Elad Alfassa.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> design-team mailing list
>>> design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>>
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> design-team mailing list
>> design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -Elad Alfassa.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>