I hear bells ringing.
These platforms are not established for the long term. That was one of
the appeals of selecting IRC and mailing lists for those communities in
the 'old days'. Those platforms are highly resilient to the passage of
I hope that you hear me when I ask that these decisions be weighed with
the same rigor and criteria that brought things to their current state.
When these platforms fail, and they will eventually, IRC and mailing
lists will still be here, but, the contact interfaces for those foss
communities will have been moved around and back, thereby introducing
an instability to those organizations.
Discord's not even an open source platform.
And the rush to the decision. Is this decision influenced by IBM?
Castles out of straw.
Something smells really bad about everything I've seen in terms of
movements in Fedora over the last year or two.
Without violating any NDAs, since I have not signed any relevant to
this, you're not attracting new contributors because there's a
coordinated corporate takeover of the Linux space between a few big
companies that's been going on for five years, which cause culture and
project changes that impact the draw dynamics, and over the next two
years you'll see the impact on Github after it is radically altered in
an initiative that has not yet been announced, that no one asked for,
and will have too much money in it to fail immediately -- in addition
to trickle-down cultural changes in various open source communities
like this one implemented by paid staffers whose purpose is to shape
things to fit in line with that roadmap.
A response isn't necessary to this question, I want to leave it
rhetorical, and I hope you ask it of yourself: Are the contributions
you are permitting preserving the future of Linux?
Some of it's Embrace, extend, extinguish. Some of it's just poor light
on a dark journey. Some it's lack of planning. I won't make claims as
to what's going on with Fedora, but, something is.
On Mon, 2020-11-09 at 16:32 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
Hi all. At today's Fedora Council "virtual
face-to-face" meeting, we
decided that it's time to move our discussion from this mailing list
and IRC to more modern platforms: namely, Discourse via
and Matrix via ... something
to be determined, but probably initially a channel on element.io and
then eventually our own server.
Some Fedora Teams, like the Magazine, have already moved from the
mailing list, and noted a significant increase in visiblity and
participation. The fact is, even those of us who proudly self-
as "old school" are reluctant to sign up for yet-another-mailing-list
these days. It's a serious barrier to project entry.
And IRC ... it's served us well, but... it's also not kept up, and
*long* been a problem we've seen in attracting new contributors. More
and more new projects turn to Slack or Discord for their real-time
discussions. I'd like us to move to something open source while such
things are viable, and hopefully by doing so help them stay
competitive. Since we don't have a Matrix server up and running, this
is a little further off, but I wanted to mention it here.
In any case, we plan to:
* Bridge IRC and Matrix, so that you can stay on IRC and interact if
that's your preference. Freenode isn't going away anytime soon!
* Plan to port zodbot to be a Matrix-native bot, so we can have
meetings, cookies-with-badges, adamw "firing" people, etc.
* Retire this list for new posts (tentatively, starting December
and instead direct conversation to
* Set up a bot to automatically post summaries of discussion from
category to this list, so that long-term subscribers aren't left
Note that unlike a "BB"-style web forum, you can interact with
via email, including getting individual
new posts and responding in your mail client. It isn't quite a
first-class experience, though -- there are many features which are
Any questions about any of this? Anything I haven't thought of?
Fedora Project Leader
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