Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
Kushal
Il 25/feb/2015 05:23 "Kushal Das" kushaldas@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
Kushal
Hi Kursaal, interesting question. In my understanding being an ambassador for any other distribution is not a real conflict of interest and, I'm not aware of any kind of rule going in that direction. Fedora stays for Freedom and I think that also means we should not rise any hurdles when people want to promote it. It's the candidate which should not use his hats together, so when he is on an event for Fedora he should wear his Fedora hat and not promote other distributions simultaneously. Same the other way around. Making this clear to the candidate would be enough and the rest is up to his sense of responsibility towards both distributions.
-- Robert Mayr (robyduck)
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Robert Mayr robyduck@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Il 25/feb/2015 05:23 "Kushal Das" kushaldas@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
Kushal
Hi Kursaal, interesting question. In my understanding being an ambassador for any other distribution is not a real conflict of interest and, I'm not aware of any kind of rule going in that direction. Fedora stays for Freedom and I think that also means we should not rise any hurdles when people want to promote it. It's the candidate which should not use his hats together, so when he is on an event for Fedora he should wear his Fedora hat and not promote other distributions simultaneously. Same the other way around. Making this clear to the candidate would be enough and the rest is up to his sense of responsibility towards both distributions.
I am not saying that we should not be friends with other projects. But if one claims to be an ambassador and then in public events talks about other distributions, that should raise a question.
Kushal
I think it should be a matter of common sense. if you belongs to another community besides of fedora you have to sure of take the correct role at the event, but not mixing the roles.
2015-02-25 3:01 GMT-04:30 Kushal Das kushaldas@gmail.com:
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Robert Mayr robyduck@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Il 25/feb/2015 05:23 "Kushal Das" kushaldas@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
Kushal
Hi Kursaal, interesting question. In my understanding being an ambassador for any other distribution is not a real conflict of interest and, I'm not aware of any kind of rule going in that direction. Fedora stays for Freedom and I think that also means we should not rise any hurdles when people want to promote it. It's the candidate which should not use his hats together, so when he is on an event for Fedora he should wear his Fedora hat and not promote other distributions simultaneously. Same the other way around. Making this clear to the candidate would be enough and the rest is up to his sense of responsibility towards both distributions.
I am not saying that we should not be friends with other projects. But if one claims to be an ambassador and then in public events talks about other distributions, that should raise a question.
Kushal
Fedora Cloud Engineer CPython Core Developer Director Python Software Foundation http://kushaldas.in -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
+1 Edu.
On 25 February 2015 at 08:39, Eduardo Javier Echeverria Alvarado < echevemaster@gmail.com> wrote:
I think it should be a matter of common sense. if you belongs to another community besides of fedora you have to sure of take the correct role at the event, but not mixing the roles.
2015-02-25 3:01 GMT-04:30 Kushal Das kushaldas@gmail.com:
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Robert Mayr robyduck@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Il 25/feb/2015 05:23 "Kushal Das" kushaldas@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
Kushal
Hi Kursaal, interesting question. In my understanding being an ambassador for any
other
distribution is not a real conflict of interest and, I'm not aware of
any
kind of rule going in that direction. Fedora stays for Freedom and I think that also means we should not rise
any
hurdles when people want to promote it. It's the candidate which should not use his hats together, so when he
is on
an event for Fedora he should wear his Fedora hat and not promote other distributions simultaneously. Same the other way around. Making this clear to the candidate would be enough and the rest is up
to his
sense of responsibility towards both distributions.
I am not saying that we should not be friends with other projects. But if one claims to be an ambassador and then in public events talks about other distributions, that should raise a question.
Kushal
Fedora Cloud Engineer CPython Core Developer Director Python Software Foundation http://kushaldas.in -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
-- Eduardo Echeverría Director Soluciones SAEF, C.A. J-29663216-2 0245-7666441 0414-4304448 soluciones.saef@gmail.com -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
I find myself agreeing with Kushal here.
Being an ambassador implies a sense of "special loyalty" to the distribution and playing a role as an advocate for the overall success of the project.
For one of "our" advocates to also be an advocate for our biggest competitors might put the loyalty aspect into question.
But then again, maybe I am wrong? On 25 Feb 2015 08:31, "Kushal Das" kushaldas@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Robert Mayr robyduck@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Il 25/feb/2015 05:23 "Kushal Das" kushaldas@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
Kushal
Hi Kursaal, interesting question. In my understanding being an ambassador for any
other
distribution is not a real conflict of interest and, I'm not aware of any kind of rule going in that direction. Fedora stays for Freedom and I think that also means we should not rise
any
hurdles when people want to promote it. It's the candidate which should not use his hats together, so when he is
on
an event for Fedora he should wear his Fedora hat and not promote other distributions simultaneously. Same the other way around. Making this clear to the candidate would be enough and the rest is up to
his
sense of responsibility towards both distributions.
I am not saying that we should not be friends with other projects. But if one claims to be an ambassador and then in public events talks about other distributions, that should raise a question.
Kushal
Fedora Cloud Engineer CPython Core Developer Director Python Software Foundation http://kushaldas.in -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
2015-02-25 3:09 GMT-04:30 Cesar Pinto cesar.a.pinto@gmail.com:
Cesar, from my point of view, maybe in a company, this can be rather prickly, but this is a community, the people is here because they like the distro, and they have the enough reasons for contribute, similarly they have all the right to contribute to another distro for the same reasons. Again without mixing the roles.
Being an ambassador implies a sense of "special loyalty" to the distribution and playing a role as an advocate for the overall success of the project.
Yeah.. I guess I see what you mean.. (which is why +1 ed you)
I think the key here is not to mix roles and maintain common sense.
On 25 February 2015 at 08:46, Eduardo Javier Echeverria Alvarado < echevemaster@gmail.com> wrote:
2015-02-25 3:09 GMT-04:30 Cesar Pinto cesar.a.pinto@gmail.com:
Cesar, from my point of view, maybe in a company, this can be rather prickly, but this is a community, the people is here because they like the distro, and they have the enough reasons for contribute, similarly they have all the right to contribute to another distro for the same reasons. Again without mixing the roles.
Being an ambassador implies a sense of "special loyalty" to the
distribution
and playing a role as an advocate for the overall success of the project.
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Sure Cesar :)
2015-02-25 3:24 GMT-04:30 Cesar Pinto cesar.a.pinto@gmail.com:
Yeah.. I guess I see what you mean.. (which is why +1 ed you)
I think the key here is not to mix roles and maintain common sense.
On 25 February 2015 at 08:46, Eduardo Javier Echeverria Alvarado echevemaster@gmail.com wrote:
2015-02-25 3:09 GMT-04:30 Cesar Pinto cesar.a.pinto@gmail.com:
Cesar, from my point of view, maybe in a company, this can be rather prickly, but this is a community, the people is here because they like the distro, and they have the enough reasons for contribute, similarly they have all the right to contribute to another distro for the same reasons. Again without mixing the roles.
Being an ambassador implies a sense of "special loyalty" to the distribution and playing a role as an advocate for the overall success of the project.
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
-- Cesar Pinto +47 481 20 772
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Hi,
On 02/25/2015 08:39 AM, Cesar Pinto wrote:
I find myself agreeing with Kushal here.
Being an ambassador implies a sense of "special loyalty" to the distribution and playing a role as an advocate for the overall success of the project.
For one of "our" advocates to also be an advocate for our biggest competitors might put the loyalty aspect into question.
But then again, maybe I am wrong?
I'm both a Fedora and openSUSE ambassador. When I'm representing Fedora, I advocate Fedora. When I wear my openSUSE hat I advocate openSUSE. When I'm not officially representing Fedora or openSUSE at an event, I route people to the distro which covers their needs best (including Fedora (and related), openSUSE (and related), Debian (&derivatives), Gentoo and even FreeBSD).
It's more important to convert people from the "dark side" to open source than to a specific distro which disappoints them as it does not meet their expectations.
Bye,
Peter Czanik (CzP) BalaBit IT Security / syslog-ng upstream http://czanik.blogs.balabit.com/ http://czanik.blogs.balabit.com/ https://twitter.com/PCzanik
Yeah... I see things work differently in the upstream ;-)
And I like this idea of going after the dark-side! lets get them!
On 25 February 2015 at 08:59, Peter Czanik pczanik@fang.fa.gau.hu wrote:
Hi,
On 02/25/2015 08:39 AM, Cesar Pinto wrote:
I find myself agreeing with Kushal here.
Being an ambassador implies a sense of "special loyalty" to the distribution and playing a role as an advocate for the overall success of the project.
For one of "our" advocates to also be an advocate for our biggest competitors might put the loyalty aspect into question.
But then again, maybe I am wrong?
I'm both a Fedora and openSUSE ambassador. When I'm representing Fedora, I advocate Fedora. When I wear my openSUSE hat I advocate openSUSE. When I'm not officially representing Fedora or openSUSE at an event, I route people to the distro which covers their needs best (including Fedora (and related), openSUSE (and related), Debian (&derivatives), Gentoo and even FreeBSD).
It's more important to convert people from the "dark side" to open source than to a specific distro which disappoints them as it does not meet their expectations.
Bye,
Peter Czanik (CzP) BalaBit IT Security / syslog-ng upstream http://czanik.blogs.balabit.com/ https://twitter.com/PCzanik
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Robert Mayr robyduck@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Kushal sorry, I didn't notice the spellchecker on my phone changed your name. See you.
Hehe, no issues :)
Kushal
Kushal, I think this topic could be interesting to discuss at the meetings and leave clear in the requirements to become in an ambassador. I propose discuss this in our own regional meetings.
2015-02-24 23:53 GMT-04:30 Kushal Das kushaldas@gmail.com:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
Kushal
Fedora Cloud Engineer CPython Core Developer Director Python Software Foundation http://kushaldas.in -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Kushal Das kushaldas@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
How I see it, promotions can take multiple forms - at times, you're doing a full-fledged talk at a conference, another time you're just answering questions by curious newbies at a small-scale nearby event over a snack. Assuming you're representing Fedora Project, a talk normally means you're going to be speaking about Fedora for most of it. That's direct promotion - something people expected you to do anyway at a Fedora talk. What seems to me as being more effective is when you're promoting it when you weren't expected to - you know, like at a personal choice discussion. That's the interesting bit to study.
Often, when I'm done speaking at a FLOSS-oriented event about Fedora, the question I'm asked is, "Why Fedora and why not Ubuntu?" - or a variant of that. Note that this is a different question from "Why do *you* use/promote Fedora and not Ubuntu".
Answering the second question is easy. They're asking about *my* opinion, so I can talk about what works for me, without worrying about whether I have crossed boundaries of promotion so much that I'm now demoting the other. It's my opinion after all.
Answering the first is tricky, more so if you're representing a community. You want to highlight the distribution you just did a talk about (or you're generally known for talking about), but here you are comparing it with another distribution, which when you look at from the curious person's perspective, offers a reasonable set of similar features, shares principles, and probably has an intersecting community. The route I like to take is to first talk about the features I know that Fedorans are proud of, objectively. e.g. the four F's, communication with upstream, remixing capability, and some of the generic software Fedorans have had a significant role in driving. I _never_ say "Ubuntu doesn't have this", because for one, I don't really know, and two, it seems like demoting another competitor. And then (shh, don't tell anyone, ok?), I move the conversation to "Why I use Fedora" - which is probably a different set of reasons for everybody.
Why am I bringing this up?
Several times, there will be a troll in the crowd who wants to argue that something about Fedora I mentioned is present in their favorite (non Fedora) distribution, or how "Fedora copied this from Windows" or "You can game on Windows but you can't on Fedora". If I were to join that argument, it's going to be a mess - I'm only advocating why I support Fedora, not why everyone should, so why is the troll picking on me? In those scenarios, it helps when someone from each of those communities is present and speaks about why that kind of analogy isn't fair and mostly wrong.
That's why, I feel that ambassadors across communities don't always have to be a negative phenomenon. But such an ambassador really needs to know what he/she is talking about, and the art of promoting the right thing at the right time. You can be an ambassador for Ubuntu and Fedora, sure; but you can't be always talking about why Ubuntu is the "best" distribution (or even Fedora, for that matter).
Thanks! Sorry about the long one!
Hello All
I'm a fedora mentor, and an ubuntu user as well, I'll support both projects, there is no conflict of interest. If you're representing Fedora at an event, then you're there for Fedora, it's common sense not to speak [too much] about ubuntu and vica versa.
I don't think it's a problem one little bit. just my 2p
Paul [MooDoo]
On 25 February 2015 at 09:37, Sarup Banskota sbanskota08@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Kushal Das kushaldas@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
How I see it, promotions can take multiple forms - at times, you're doing a full-fledged talk at a conference, another time you're just answering questions by curious newbies at a small-scale nearby event over a snack. Assuming you're representing Fedora Project, a talk normally means you're going to be speaking about Fedora for most of it. That's direct promotion - something people expected you to do anyway at a Fedora talk. What seems to me as being more effective is when you're promoting it when you weren't expected to - you know, like at a personal choice discussion. That's the interesting bit to study.
Often, when I'm done speaking at a FLOSS-oriented event about Fedora, the question I'm asked is, "Why Fedora and why not Ubuntu?" - or a variant of that. Note that this is a different question from "Why do *you* use/promote Fedora and not Ubuntu".
Answering the second question is easy. They're asking about *my* opinion, so I can talk about what works for me, without worrying about whether I have crossed boundaries of promotion so much that I'm now demoting the other. It's my opinion after all.
Answering the first is tricky, more so if you're representing a community. You want to highlight the distribution you just did a talk about (or you're generally known for talking about), but here you are comparing it with another distribution, which when you look at from the curious person's perspective, offers a reasonable set of similar features, shares principles, and probably has an intersecting community. The route I like to take is to first talk about the features I know that Fedorans are proud of, objectively. e.g. the four F's, communication with upstream, remixing capability, and some of the generic software Fedorans have had a significant role in driving. I _never_ say "Ubuntu doesn't have this", because for one, I don't really know, and two, it seems like demoting another competitor. And then (shh, don't tell anyone, ok?), I move the conversation to "Why I use Fedora" - which is probably a different set of reasons for everybody.
Why am I bringing this up?
Several times, there will be a troll in the crowd who wants to argue that something about Fedora I mentioned is present in their favorite (non Fedora) distribution, or how "Fedora copied this from Windows" or "You can game on Windows but you can't on Fedora". If I were to join that argument, it's going to be a mess - I'm only advocating why I support Fedora, not why everyone should, so why is the troll picking on me? In those scenarios, it helps when someone from each of those communities is present and speaks about why that kind of analogy isn't fair and mostly wrong.
That's why, I feel that ambassadors across communities don't always have to be a negative phenomenon. But such an ambassador really needs to know what he/she is talking about, and the art of promoting the right thing at the right time. You can be an ambassador for Ubuntu and Fedora, sure; but you can't be always talking about why Ubuntu is the "best" distribution (or even Fedora, for that matter).
Thanks! Sorry about the long one!
ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Hi,
There might be other tribes but we are still all indians. ;) We just differ on some small points but in generally, we all have the same opinion on free software do we not?
br gnokii
2015-02-25 11:57 GMT+01:00 Paul Mellors prjmellors@gmail.com:
Hello All
I'm a fedora mentor, and an ubuntu user as well, I'll support both projects, there is no conflict of interest. If you're representing Fedora at an event, then you're there for Fedora, it's common sense not to speak [too much] about ubuntu and vica versa.
I don't think it's a problem one little bit. just my 2p
Paul [MooDoo]
On 25 February 2015 at 09:37, Sarup Banskota sbanskota08@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Kushal Das kushaldas@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
How I see it, promotions can take multiple forms - at times, you're doing a full-fledged talk at a conference, another time you're just answering questions by curious newbies at a small-scale nearby event over a snack. Assuming you're representing Fedora Project, a talk normally means you're going to be speaking about Fedora for most of it. That's direct promotion - something people expected you to do anyway at a Fedora talk. What seems to me as being more effective is when you're promoting it when you weren't expected to - you know, like at a personal choice discussion. That's the interesting bit to study.
Often, when I'm done speaking at a FLOSS-oriented event about Fedora, the question I'm asked is, "Why Fedora and why not Ubuntu?" - or a variant of that. Note that this is a different question from "Why do *you* use/promote Fedora and not Ubuntu".
Answering the second question is easy. They're asking about *my* opinion, so I can talk about what works for me, without worrying about whether I have crossed boundaries of promotion so much that I'm now demoting the other. It's my opinion after all.
Answering the first is tricky, more so if you're representing a community. You want to highlight the distribution you just did a talk about (or you're generally known for talking about), but here you are comparing it with another distribution, which when you look at from the curious person's perspective, offers a reasonable set of similar features, shares principles, and probably has an intersecting community. The route I like to take is to first talk about the features I know that Fedorans are proud of, objectively. e.g. the four F's, communication with upstream, remixing capability, and some of the generic software Fedorans have had a significant role in driving. I _never_ say "Ubuntu doesn't have this", because for one, I don't really know, and two, it seems like demoting another competitor. And then (shh, don't tell anyone, ok?), I move the conversation to "Why I use Fedora" - which is probably a different set of reasons for everybody.
Why am I bringing this up?
Several times, there will be a troll in the crowd who wants to argue that something about Fedora I mentioned is present in their favorite (non Fedora) distribution, or how "Fedora copied this from Windows" or "You can game on Windows but you can't on Fedora". If I were to join that argument, it's going to be a mess - I'm only advocating why I support Fedora, not why everyone should, so why is the troll picking on me? In those scenarios, it helps when someone from each of those communities is present and speaks about why that kind of analogy isn't fair and mostly wrong.
That's why, I feel that ambassadors across communities don't always have to be a negative phenomenon. But such an ambassador really needs to know what he/she is talking about, and the art of promoting the right thing at the right time. You can be an ambassador for Ubuntu and Fedora, sure; but you can't be always talking about why Ubuntu is the "best" distribution (or even Fedora, for that matter).
Thanks! Sorry about the long one!
ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Kushal Das píše v St 25. 02. 2015 v 09:53 +0530:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
When I'm mentoring new ambassadors I advise them to be, to some degree, loyal to Fedora. On the other hand, I don't think there should be a strict rule about it because the situation is not white and black. There are cases where it's understandable. What I'm trying to avoid are so called collectors of titles. I have had candidates which already were ambassadors/advocates/whatever of 3-4 other distributions and it was clear that they wanted to become a Fedora ambassador just to get yet another achievement/title (the more distributions you have in your CV the better Linux expert you're, right? :-) ). This is IMHO wrong and we should avoid such ambassadors.
Jiri
Hello all
What I'm trying to avoid are so called collectors of titles.
Aja, This is the main issue. If someone has 1000 titles but has earn them all, then it's fine. It's just a matter of see if the person is contributing actively in everything that he/she claim be part of; and if not, make him/her earn it.
I use Fedora as my main OS, however, I have been hosting an event that brings every Open Distro to the table for about 8 years; so, it should be more a "have you earn it?" question. Remember that an ambassador should become one "only" when he has proved that deserves the title, not because "he/she might deserve it".
Ambassador should be a prize, not something to catch potential contributors.
+1 Brilliant Twohot On Wed, 2015-02-25 at 12:26 -0430, María Leandro wrote:
Hello all
What I'm trying to avoid are so called collectors of titles.
Aja, This is the main issue. If someone has 1000 titles but has earn them all, then it's fine. It's just a matter of see if the person is contributing actively in everything that he/she claim be part of; and if not, make him/her earn it.
I use Fedora as my main OS, however, I have been hosting an event that brings every Open Distro to the table for about 8 years; so, it should be more a "have you earn it?" question. Remember that an ambassador should become one "only" when he has proved that deserves the title, not because "he/she might deserve it".
Ambassador should be a prize, not something to catch potential contributors.
-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
It depend on the context. If I am going to interact as Fedora Ambassador only, then I should stick to Fedora. If I am going to interact as a leader of Ubuntu Women only, then I should stick to Ubuntu.
But I don't see any conflict of interest in mixing up the two especially when the event in question is not a Fedora event. My forthcoming talk is on free software, FOSS in Science and GLUG management mainly. But I will be mentioning bit about contributing to Ubuntu and Fedora too.
I think our rules should revolve around Fedora events.
HTH
Best
A. Mani
Prof(Miss) A. Mani [Last_Name. First_Name Format] CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/ http://about.me/logicamani sip:girlprofessor@ekiga.net
On 25 February 2015 at 22:26, María Leandro tatica@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Aja, This is the main issue. If someone has 1000 titles but has earn them all, then it's fine. It's just a matter of see if the person is contributing actively in everything that he/she claim be part of; and if not, make him/her earn it.
I use Fedora as my main OS, however, I have been hosting an event that brings every Open Distro to the table for about 8 years; so, it should be more a "have you earn it?" question. Remember that an ambassador should become one "only" when he has proved that deserves the title, not because "he/she might deserve it".
The question of conflict of interest arises when one is trying to market one OS over another. It is weird (hypocritical is too strong a word because it implies malice and that is the last thing I would associate with contributors) for a lot of potential users and contributors to see the same person talking about Fedora as the best distribution to use on one day and then the next day, talk about Ubuntu as the best OS. Besides, there will almost always be the slight bias towards a specific OS (Fedora in your case for example) due to various reasons and that alone may be unfair to the other distribution since you may not necessarily be putting your best foot forward for them.
That said, it is not difficult for an experienced Free Software evangelist to have a realistic view of the distribution they talk about. I understand why a lot of users choose Ubuntu, but at the same time, I understand even better why I want to contribute to and use Fedora. That IMO is more important since it also might give users some perspective about the complexity of the Open Source world. It also gives a very honest view to your audience about why your primary choice is what it is and that IMO is very valuable.
Ambassador should be a prize, not something to catch potential contributors.
Even out of context, I think this is spot on, although I wouldn't call it a prize, more like a badge :)
Siddhesh
El 2015-02-25 10:56, María Leandro escribió:
Hello all
What I'm trying to avoid are so called collectors of titles.
Aja, This is the main issue. If someone has 1000 titles but has earn them all, then it's fine. It's just a matter of see if the person is contributing actively in everything that he/she claim be part of; and if not, make him/her earn it.
I use Fedora as my main OS, however, I have been hosting an event that brings every Open Distro to the table for about 8 years; so, it should be more a "have you earn it?" question. Remember that an ambassador should become one "only" when he has proved that deserves the title, not because "he/she might deserve it".
Ambassador should be a prize, not something to catch potential contributors.
Yes, that is the main issue and I completely agree.
But as far as conflict of interest I may add that we should play by the name. If the name is freesoftware table/stand/event, then we have freesoftware all mix together. If it is a Fedora table/stand/event, then we should keep clear that it is Fedora and do not send mix messages to the audience. Not meant to be black or white, but more kind of a guideline.
The same goes for LUG activities, if it is LUG we are all together. But if it is a Fedora activity we should try to focus on Fedora.
How we break the circle? How we send this beyond the Ambassadors mailing list, where we are most in agreement? Shall this posted in some wiki page in the ambassador join steps and guidelines?
Neville
Seconded. Should be added as guideline on the join process.
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:39 Neville A. Cross yn1v@taygon.com wrote:
El 2015-02-25 10:56, María Leandro escribió:
Hello all
What I'm trying to avoid are so called collectors of titles.
Aja, This is the main issue. If someone has 1000 titles but has earn them all, then it's fine. It's just a matter of see if the person is contributing actively in everything that he/she claim be part of; and if not, make him/her earn it.
I use Fedora as my main OS, however, I have been hosting an event that brings every Open Distro to the table for about 8 years; so, it should be more a "have you earn it?" question. Remember that an ambassador should become one "only" when he has proved that deserves the title, not because "he/she might deserve it".
Ambassador should be a prize, not something to catch potential contributors.
Yes, that is the main issue and I completely agree.
But as far as conflict of interest I may add that we should play by the name. If the name is freesoftware table/stand/event, then we have freesoftware all mix together. If it is a Fedora table/stand/event, then we should keep clear that it is Fedora and do not send mix messages to the audience. Not meant to be black or white, but more kind of a guideline.
The same goes for LUG activities, if it is LUG we are all together. But if it is a Fedora activity we should try to focus on Fedora.
How we break the circle? How we send this beyond the Ambassadors mailing list, where we are most in agreement? Shall this posted in some wiki page in the ambassador join steps and guidelines?
Neville
ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On 25 February 2015 at 23:08, Neville A. Cross yn1v@taygon.com wrote:
But as far as conflict of interest I may add that we should play by the name. If the name is freesoftware table/stand/event, then we have freesoftware all mix together. If it is a Fedora table/stand/event, then we should keep clear that it is Fedora and do not send mix messages to the audience. Not meant to be black or white, but more kind of a guideline.
The same goes for LUG activities, if it is LUG we are all together. But if it is a Fedora activity we should try to focus on Fedora.
How we break the circle? How we send this beyond the Ambassadors mailing list, where we are most in agreement? Shall this posted in some wiki page in the ambassador join steps and guidelines?
The first page[1] in the Ambassadors joining pages has this:
"You are the expert in your region. You understand the culture, the needs, and the best ways to communicate about Fedora and FOSS in your region"
IMO this encompasses the trait we're talking about, i.e. the understanding of how you conduct yourself at an event in a manner that does not send conflicting signals to the audience. If it is not obvious enough then maybe another bullet point on that page ought to be sufficient.
Siddhesh
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:26:24PM -0430, María Leandro wrote:
Hello all
What I'm trying to avoid are so called collectors of titles.
Aja, This is the main issue. If someone has 1000 titles but has earn them all, then it's fine. It's just a matter of see if the person is contributing actively in everything that he/she claim be part of; and if not, make him/her earn it.
I use Fedora as my main OS, however, I have been hosting an event that brings every Open Distro to the table for about 8 years; so, it should be more a "have you earn it?" question. Remember that an ambassador should become one "only" when he has proved that deserves the title, not because "he/she might deserve it".
Ambassador should be a prize, not something to catch potential contributors.
Both Jiri and Maria made very good points here. This is not to say that we have a current Ambassador problem. But if we were to throw Ambassador titles around as easily as, say, a badge for making an account, it would devalue the subcommunity pretty quickly.
I've heard stories from contributors about other communities throwing around titles or other resources, which ultimately results in less value by and from the community overall. We definitely don't want to go down that path.
The other problem is of remaining active.
I was very active as Fedora ambassador and am no longer able to devote much time, have my personal problems and many people don't want to work with me.
Am I allowed to resign?
Best
A. Mani
Prof(Miss) A. Mani [Last_Name. First_Name Format] CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/ http://about.me/logicamani sip:girlprofessor@ekiga.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul W. Frields" stickster@gmail.com To: "ambassadors" ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 2:58:32 AM Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Promoting other distributions and conflict of interest
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:26:24PM -0430, María Leandro wrote:
Hello all
What I'm trying to avoid are so called collectors of titles.
Aja, This is the main issue. If someone has 1000 titles but has earn them all, then it's fine. It's just a matter of see if the person is contributing actively in everything that he/she claim be part of; and if not, make him/her earn it.
I use Fedora as my main OS, however, I have been hosting an event that brings every Open Distro to the table for about 8 years; so, it should be more a "have you earn it?" question. Remember that an ambassador should become one "only" when he has proved that deserves the title, not because "he/she might deserve it".
Ambassador should be a prize, not something to catch potential contributors.
+1.
Both Jiri and Maria made very good points here.
+1.
This is not to say that we have a current Ambassador problem. But if we were to throw Ambassador titles around as easily as, say, a badge for making an account, it would devalue the subcommunity pretty quickly.
I've heard stories from contributors about other communities throwing around titles or other resources, which ultimately results in less value by and from the community overall. We definitely don't want to go down that path.
and +1.
Now a days, sponsoring new ambassadors is responsibility of mentors. Making it hard or easy depends on mentoring strategy of each mentor. I myself always expect to see as most as active activities from candidates before officially sponsoring them.
Rgds, Tuan
El 25/02/2015 5:56 pm, María Leandro escribió:
Hello all
What I'm trying to avoid are so called collectors of titles.
Aja, This is the main issue. If someone has 1000 titles but has earn them all, then it's fine. It's just a matter of see if the person is contributing actively in everything that he/she claim be part of; and if not, make him/her earn it.
I hardly believe someone with more than one or two "titles" would perform properly at all of them, ie. remain active. I mean, it's sometimes difficult to find time for FOSS volunteering when you're in just one community…
I use Fedora as my main OS, however, I have been hosting an event that brings every Open Distro to the table for about 8 years; so, it should be more a "have you earn it?" question. Remember that an ambassador should become one "only" when he has proved that deserves the title, not because "he/she might deserve it".
I think we should make more clear what "to deserve" means. One might be qualified at the application moment, but should also stress *commitment* and involvement in several communities would be a red flag. Then, to me "to deserve" includes to show commitment.
Moreover, anyone is free to promote Fedora without holding a "title".
Ambassador should be a prize, not something to catch potential contributors.
+1
Eduardo
Interesting question,
Let me add a little more colour: When organizing an open-source event (e.g. Free software Day SFD), would I be considered an unfaithful fedora ambassador if I order swags for other distros along with Fedora swags?
That puts it in a familiar context
Regards twohot
On Wed, 2015-02-25 at 09:53 +0530, Kushal Das wrote:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
Kushal
On Wednesday 25 February 2015 09:53 AM, Kushal Das wrote:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
Kushal
I don't think so,
I'm a fedora ambassador, in some public events may be at some school or something, I try to promote fedora. But some/many students/teacher specially asks for Ubuntu, they want Ubuntu to be installed on there systems.
in this situation we/I support them and providing Ubuntu support/Installation.
and I don't think its conflicts with Fedora... as I've tried my best to promote fedora as I can
after all I'm promoting LINUX ... no matter its Fedora or Ubuntu ....
what other are thinking ????? ..please share
+1
So far we aim for free (and as it says on Fedora slogan) it is OK to me.
Still, do NOT INTENTIONALLY mix things. Go "Fedora first" and then "others". Do not do both at the same time.
Anyhow, it will help all us to have as much FOSS as we can on the planet so just think it "that way".
-- Jukka
On 26/02/15 07:59, Jatin khatri wrote:
On Wednesday 25 February 2015 09:53 AM, Kushal Das wrote:
Hi,
Just wondering if promoting other distributions (in this case Ubuntu) in public events should be considered as a conflict of interest? This case the same person holds ambassador position in Fedora and similar kind of position in Ubuntu too.
Kushal
I don't think so,
I'm a fedora ambassador, in some public events may be at some school or something, I try to promote fedora. But some/many students/teacher specially asks for Ubuntu, they want Ubuntu to be installed on there systems.
in this situation we/I support them and providing Ubuntu support/Installation.
and I don't think its conflicts with Fedora... as I've tried my best to promote fedora as I can
after all I'm promoting LINUX ... no matter its Fedora or Ubuntu ....
what other are thinking ????? ..please share
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Fedora is awesome, but Fedora is not for all the people out there trying their first steps in the Linux world, so I have recommended Ubuntu or Linux Mint to some new users, but recently I have been recommending Korora (1) than is a Fedora Remix but also Ubuntu Like, I don't see a conflict of interest in that.
There could be a conflict of interest if I request medias from the Fedora Budget and I use these medias to burn other OS, or if I make a request for funds to a travel and in the event I don´t make something related to Fedora.
El 2015-02-26 09:47, William Moreno escribió:
Fedora is awesome, but Fedora is not for all the people out there trying their first steps in the Linux world, so I have recommended Ubuntu or Linux Mint to some new users, but recently I have been recommending Korora (1) than is a Fedora Remix but also Ubuntu Like, I don't see a conflict of interest in that.
There could be a conflict of interest if I request medias from the Fedora Budget and I use these medias to burn other OS, or if I make a request for funds to a travel and in the event I don´t make something related to Fedora.
1: https://kororaproject.org/ [1]
As I said, if it is a free and open source software event all mix together, it is fine. If in that mix we have a table/stand that is fedora-land then korora is out of place. We will drive attention about korora verus fedora instead of features of Fedora.
I do think that a talk/speach about how to make remixes is good in a conference room or in side of the conference room. But not in the table/stand were we want to focus in Fedora.
Neville
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org