I'm going to top-post here, because I think this is straight forward
and important.
When I saw this thread yesterday, I was quite satisfied with Robyduck
and Robert's responses, and did not feel the need to chime in. I felt
like the issue of "real" being a word that was lost in translation was
addressed BOTH during the meeting, AND in this thread. I also felt
that it was appropriate for jonatoni to ask about it after reviewing
the logs, and did not feel like this was a personal attack on anyone.
I know the spirit of Robert's response was "let's not repeat the
mistakes of the past," I was there at the meeting. Giannis' response
defending the Greek community was reasonable enough (though we started
to get into emotionally charged territory, but that is, as tatica
said, what happens when someone is defending their growing community.)
Where things really started going wrong and what is *not* reasonable,
is all of a sudden, going into a rant about how the community in
question was not "real," even though we had just established that this
was not the original intention of Robert's statement.
Fedora does not prefer conflict, and we cannot afford to foster a
hostile environment where the loudest most aggressive voices drive out
the next generation of contributors.
We can disagree, and we can do so in constructive ways, and I think
tatica's response here was genuine and brings out the valid concerns
of everyone, and offers a way forward. Thank you tatica for taking the
time to respond and support the community.
Onboarding, handholding, and creating a positive environment IS my
business, and you jonatoni are doing a great job in the Albanian
community of making folks feel welcome and building a local group
there. Thank you.
It is important for folks to be passionate about representing their
local communities, and I think it is clear after Robert's response
here that the spirit of the conversation was originally just about not
repeating the mistakes of the past, not about invalidating other local
communities. To imply otherwise is counter-productive, and simply not
THE TRUTH.
I would suggest that we close this thread at this point, and if there
are further issues or concerns around CoC or other policies, that
folks feel free to take those up with the Council or Community Working
Group.
My inbox is always open, and I hope that this renewed interest in
FAmSCo threads helps to drive more ambassador activity and builds
stronger bonds between our regions.
Looking Forward,
--RemyD.
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Robert Scheck <robert(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
Hello Giannis,
hello Jona,
as I already stated earlier in this thread, I never had the intention to
insult or degrade the work and efforts of any volunteer/contributor or of
any regional community. Given I gave this impression by choosing bad words,
I appologize to all of you for that. I'm also available for a personal chat
e.g. on the IRC or some privat e-mail conversation, in case somebody would
like to follow up that (Jona mentioned that not all are part of this list).
I actually hope that everybody whom I upset previously accepts my excuse.
Be assured that I believe in the Albanian community as well as the Greek
one (and any other regional community of course). In case Jona and OSCAL
are still looking forward to see me at the event, I'm happy to support the
event including the regional community.
As it was mentioned, I am a long term contributor, yes, but from my point
of view, this has nothing to do with the mistake I made. It doesn't excuse
it at least. And I also do not treat myself as "more correct" or whatever.
Further on, I do not expect any excuse by Jona. Again, I made the mistake.
While I like to see that some may got my point even from my initial sloppy
sentences and I appreciate the tries to clarify my words...I think this is
difficult because it eases the chance to add interpretations or another bad
choosen adjective or similar.
Giannis, regarding your reply to my e-mail, I am happy to go into details
once there are metrics otherwise we could go round in circles. I was and I
am in touch with people who think about joining Fedora, not everybody has a
FAS account at that time and I also receive(d) requests for mentoring from
people without a FAS account. Even it sounds strange, not every contributor
has a FAS account, because you can actually contribute to Fedora without. I
included these people...if it's finally "a lot" or "fair part"
might be a
definition thing (similar like active FAS account but no activity for time
range n). Mentioned requests etc. are usually e-mail communications or IRC
chats, thus not necessarily publically verifiable.
Honestly, I kindly however disagree with the "try to measure the activities
of a community by # of events organized and by # of contributions towards
the project" because this try could be unfair for regions with less human
population and/or a larger land area. Trying to measure like this might be
even same demotivating for such a regional community and thus does not help
from my point of view.
Greetings,
Robert
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Remy DeCausemaker
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<decause(a)redhat.com>
https://whatcanidoforfedora.org