I am new here, and not even officially a mentor yet, but I don't believe that kicking inactive people is the right way to go. It shouldn't be "Be part of the team constantly or get kicked." I don't see any benefit. Maybe in the case of mentors one could put in their status as "presumed inactive". People have stages of life, and sometimes aren't available for a long time not because of lack of care or interest  but personal interest. Maybe mark someone inactive for reference, but removing someone seems unkind and I don't think it reflects the values Fedora is built on. Again I am new. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am right. Just giving my opinion -  James

On Feb 27, 2014 9:23 AM, <ambassadors-request@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (Jukka Palander)
   2. Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (Jkhatri)
   3. Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (inode0)
   4. Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (Jiri Eischmann)
   5. Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (Itamar Reis Peixoto)
   6. Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (Jiri Eischmann)
   7. Re: Discussion: revoking ambassador status (inode0)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 14:26:52 +0100
From: Jukka Palander <jukka@devspain.com>
To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
Message-ID: <530F3D1C.1050006@devspain.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hmmmm. excatly.

Let's say me!

I do no do IRQ-meetings, I hardly ever write into the list. I do not go
to the events (because there are NONE in the Southern Spain and it is
far too expensive to go elsewhere). I do not create events because I do
not have money or time to do it.  ....and I do not do "this and that".

What I do, is; I use Fedora every day, I install it in every place where
I can (and see it possible/feasable/....) and I do spread Fedora
media/word/information all over the places where I go. Sometimes I go to
the business meeting presenting completely something else and having
Fedora polo on and I may "accidently" test the Fedora website when
testing the Internet connection and whatever pops into my mind.... and
then sometimes I am known as a "linux man". People say "hey, there comes
the linux man -please behave now....". Then I try to explain "no, not
really a linux guy. rather I see myself as a FOSS man, standardization
man, keep things simple and effective man, a Fedora man"..

I must be a baaaaad and inactive person. Maybe not an Ambassador after all?

--
Jukka


On 25/02/14 11:25, Danishka Navin wrote:
> How do we define an active ambassador?
> by number of mails hitting the list? number of events? IRC meetings?
>
> They should not permanently removed from the system but some where others
> can find those information and invite them back to the project.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> yesterday we had a long discussion about whether we want to have a
>> mechanism to remove completely inactive ambassadors or not. This issue
>> is brought up again and again, so I think it's time to discuss it
>> properly and eventually make a decision.
>>
>> You can find more in this ticket:
>> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/358
>>
>> Feel free to comment (ideally in the ticket to keep all discussion
>> there), express your opinion, propose modifications, or even different
>> solutions. You input is welcome.
>>
>> Jiri
>>
>> --
>> ambassadors mailing list
>> ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ambassadors mailing list
> ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 19:22:06 +0530
From: Jkhatri <khatri.jatin@gmail.com>
To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
Message-ID: <530F4306.7090300@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

On Thursday 27 February 2014 06:56 PM, Jukka Palander wrote:
> Hmmmm. excatly.
>
> Let's say me!
>
> I do no do IRQ-meetings, I hardly ever write into the list. I do not go
> to the events (because there are NONE in the Southern Spain and it is
> far too expensive to go elsewhere). I do not create events because I do
> not have money or time to do it.  ....and I do not do "this and that".
>

same here with me... I do send medias to local school or education
institutions, who directly contacting me instead of using free media
track..!!!

will you not consider me as an active member ?????

Warm Regards


--

*/

Jatin Khatri

RHCSA RHCE CCNA

www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Jatin <http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Jatin>

Phone (+91) 98250 20393

Save Paper, Save Environment.**
/*(Plant at least one tree in your life and nurture it !!!)*/


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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:52:39 -0600
From: inode0 <inode0@gmail.com>
To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
Message-ID:
        <CAAHfupkGUOZogWxnELCc2Q_gVRZk1Yv05a3naJH2Y71fjLC0=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Jukka Palander <jukka@devspain.com> wrote:
> Hmmmm. excatly.
>
> Let's say me!
>
> I do no do IRQ-meetings, I hardly ever write into the list. I do not go
> to the events (because there are NONE in the Southern Spain and it is
> far too expensive to go elsewhere). I do not create events because I do
> not have money or time to do it.  ....and I do not do "this and that".
>
> What I do, is; I use Fedora every day, I install it in every place where
> I can (and see it possible/feasable/....) and I do spread Fedora
> media/word/information all over the places where I go. Sometimes I go to
> the business meeting presenting completely something else and having
> Fedora polo on and I may "accidently" test the Fedora website when
> testing the Internet connection and whatever pops into my mind.... and
> then sometimes I am known as a "linux man". People say "hey, there comes
> the linux man -please behave now....". Then I try to explain "no, not
> really a linux guy. rather I see myself as a FOSS man, standardization
> man, keep things simple and effective man, a Fedora man"..
>
> I must be a baaaaad and inactive person. Maybe not an Ambassador after all?

Hi Jukka,

Seems every few years we go down this path and it upsets a lot of
people and there is a lot of debate over defining what makes someone
active or inactive and it hasn't ever resulted in doing anything
beyond upsetting people that I can recall. Even in areas where
activity is fairly easy to define I don't know of any other group that
kicks people out for taking a break and not causing trouble.

I can't imagine how anything good will come from pitting one group
against another which will be what happens when a group of ambassadors
in one country/region decide to try to remove the membership of other
local ambassadors.

Be friends. When some ambassadors stop being active however you define
that you can step in and fill the void.

John


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 14:57:49 +0100
From: Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com>
To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
Message-ID: <1393509469.2142.31.camel@dhcp-29-29-brq-redhat-com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Please calm down and read the proposal once again.
IMHO it's pretty obvious from the proposal that it wouldn't affect
contributors like you.

Once again: we don't want to measure and judge activity of ambassadors.
It should only affect contributors who have not been in touch with the
project for a long time, haven't shown any sign of interest in the
project and don't care about being ambassadors any more.

If we really approves such a change there will be several safety catches
to avoid removing someone who still wants to be an ambassador. If they
fail, all you will have to do is to send a message like "Hey, I still
want to be an ambassador". Or even if all this fails, you come back and
simply say "Hey, I'm back and I want to be an ambassador again" and
you'll be added back the status without having to undergo the
mentoring.

Jiri

Jukka Palander píše v Čt 27. 02. 2014 v 14:26 +0100:
> Hmmmm. excatly.
>
> Let's say me!
>
> I do no do IRQ-meetings, I hardly ever write into the list. I do not go
> to the events (because there are NONE in the Southern Spain and it is
> far too expensive to go elsewhere). I do not create events because I do
> not have money or time to do it.  ....and I do not do "this and that".
>
> What I do, is; I use Fedora every day, I install it in every place where
> I can (and see it possible/feasable/....) and I do spread Fedora
> media/word/information all over the places where I go. Sometimes I go to
> the business meeting presenting completely something else and having
> Fedora polo on and I may "accidently" test the Fedora website when
> testing the Internet connection and whatever pops into my mind.... and
> then sometimes I am known as a "linux man". People say "hey, there comes
> the linux man -please behave now....". Then I try to explain "no, not
> really a linux guy. rather I see myself as a FOSS man, standardization
> man, keep things simple and effective man, a Fedora man"..
>
> I must be a baaaaad and inactive person. Maybe not an Ambassador after all?
>
> --
> Jukka
>
>
> On 25/02/14 11:25, Danishka Navin wrote:
> > How do we define an active ambassador?
> > by number of mails hitting the list? number of events? IRC meetings?
> >
> > They should not permanently removed from the system but some where others
> > can find those information and invite them back to the project.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> yesterday we had a long discussion about whether we want to have a
> >> mechanism to remove completely inactive ambassadors or not. This issue
> >> is brought up again and again, so I think it's time to discuss it
> >> properly and eventually make a decision.
> >>
> >> You can find more in this ticket:
> >> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/358
> >>
> >> Feel free to comment (ideally in the ticket to keep all discussion
> >> there), express your opinion, propose modifications, or even different
> >> solutions. You input is welcome.
> >>
> >> Jiri
> >>
> >> --
> >> ambassadors mailing list
> >> ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ambassadors mailing list
> > ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
> >
> --
> ambassadors mailing list
> ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 11:01:22 -0300
From: Itamar Reis Peixoto <itamar@ispbrasil.com.br>
To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
Message-ID:
        <CACyzUwJBnpysf5V2PwiStKjXX+uEjc=x54sNGsswMy8jiPrCAg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> yesterday we had a long discussion about whether we want to have a
> mechanism to remove completely inactive ambassadors or not. This issue
> is brought up again and again, so I think it's time to discuss it
> properly and eventually make a decision.
>
> You can find more in this ticket:
> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/358
>
> Feel free to comment (ideally in the ticket to keep all discussion
> there), express your opinion, propose modifications, or even different
> solutions. You input is welcome.
>
> Jiri
>

in my point of view the main problem is having inactive mentors.
mentor for me is not the guy that approve new ambassadors .
new mentors are nominated by current mentors ( for me is not good)

what happens if  you tried to blame the police to the police  ?


--
------------

Itamar Reis Peixoto


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:06:01 +0100
From: Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com>
To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
Message-ID: <1393509961.2142.32.camel@dhcp-29-29-brq-redhat-com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Itamar Reis Peixoto píše v Čt 27. 02. 2014 v 11:01 -0300:
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > yesterday we had a long discussion about whether we want to have a
> > mechanism to remove completely inactive ambassadors or not. This issue
> > is brought up again and again, so I think it's time to discuss it
> > properly and eventually make a decision.
> >
> > You can find more in this ticket:
> > https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/358
> >
> > Feel free to comment (ideally in the ticket to keep all discussion
> > there), express your opinion, propose modifications, or even different
> > solutions. You input is welcome.
> >
> > Jiri
> >
>
> in my point of view the main problem is having inactive mentors.
> mentor for me is not the guy that approve new ambassadors .
> new mentors are nominated by current mentors ( for me is not good)
>
> what happens if  you tried to blame the police to the police  ?

This issue is also being discussed:
https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/359

Jiri




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 08:23:17 -0600
From: inode0 <inode0@gmail.com>
To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Discussion: revoking ambassador status
Message-ID:
        <CAAHfupnxh8RJfoaXmRRnMFU3gTovN2hzn2Z5UmG37Kk9ZEGjVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Itamar Reis Peixoto
<itamar@ispbrasil.com.br> wrote:
> in my point of view the main problem is having inactive mentors.
> mentor for me is not the guy that approve new ambassadors .
> new mentors are nominated by current mentors ( for me is not good)

I can understand not having enough mentors in a region being a
problem. I can't understand how having an inactive mentor is a
problem. An inactive mentor is someone the community trusted to
perform a certain task and who for whatever reason can't at the
moment. That inactive mentor is like having money in the bank though,
and when circumstances permit they can begin performing their task
again. Kick one out and they won't come back.

> what happens if  you tried to blame the police to the police  ?

Please don't equate mentors with police.

John


------------------------------

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