Hi there again. Addressing some of the comments mentioned above:
>I remember times, where a FOSS contributor could say his opinion,
but now
we are in the era of "diversity managers" and "CoC" and
everybody has to be
afraid that somebody, like Jona can comes and point the finger at one and
crying - there bad boy. And everybody doesnt read the log file to find out
what happend, no everybody cries also "bad boy".<<
That's not a good note to start a response and probably not a good start
for resolving this conversation. It's also funny you mention CoC when
comments like "crying, pointing fingers and the bad guy" is bordering on a
personal attack coloured with subjective views of yours, which do not
really add to the discussion and makes me personally relieved that there is
a Code of Conduct. I'm not able to fathom how new contributors would feel
when faced with such comments, especially those who haven't contributed to
an open source project before. At Fedora we encourage to assume Best
Intentions with fellow community members, but the way you worded your
message does not leave much space for it.
Also, while you argument of expressing opinions is valid, it works both
ways, so please allow me to express my opinion on the situation as well
(which reflects other Albanian contributors who are not able to join the
discussion here due to not being Ambassadors).
>A normal human being, grown up and mature <<
This is again getting personal and I am not going to comment on your
statement as long as you keep using that language.
> but you preferred to throw dirt at him. <<
"Throwing dirt" is also a quite courageous expression which I doubt was the
case here.
>Its like the bible says, the one without sins may throw the first
stone.
So think about yourself are you without sins? Completely without failure I
dont think so.<<
This is quite out of context here and unfortunately again based on
assumptions.
To put this into perspective, I deeply appreciate Robert's work and there
was no intentions to make this personal (and I still fail to see where this
looked personal) apart discussing a community matter which affects more
than 2 people. I am sorry if anything derived into a personal notion, which
was not the intention here.
Robert will also be part of OSCAL'16, the third edition of the regional
open source conference the Albanian community is organizing, so there would
be no reason to "throw dirt" when we welcome a fellow speaker in an event
we organize.
----
Regarding the points Robert Mayr mentioned:
We are not talking about the way phrases might have been worded, which is
completely understandable, but as long as there are comments like gnokii's:
> make more out of something, what is just bad formulated but on
the end
THE TRUTH.<< it's not so clear anymore that it's just a case
of bad wording
(please correct me if there was another meaning in that statement).
This is not at all a matter on a personal basis, rather than concerns
voiced from a community, so I do not see it as a viable alternative to
"continue with the work" when a community is feeling uncomfortable with the
situation. Latter is also clearly indicated in the CoC:
"It's important to remember that a community where people feel
uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one." - which unfortunately
might be the case if this discussion is not resolved.
I'm sorry if the starting email suggested that Robert does not appreciate
the Albanian community's contribution (or any community for that case), as
my further points were meant in a general manner, not directed at Robert.
Which exact part did suggest otherwise? I also think that while Giannis
might have used too colourful words, he is one of the most updated
contributors when it comes to the EMEA region and complimenting one
community doesn't necessarily mean to marginalize others.
Also, "getting back to business" might work for those who know what the
"business" is about. But in rather new communities where handholding is
needed sometimes, it's not the sole priority (although I'd prefer doing
that, if it would be up to me).
Different communities have different needs and processes to reach the
impact they plan, don't you think?
Cheers,
Jona
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Nikos Roussos <comzeradd(a)fedoraproject.org>
wrote:
On March 15, 2016 5:22:53 PM GMT+02:00, Robert Mayr <
robyduck(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>2016-03-15 15:36 GMT+01:00 Giannis Konstantinidis
><giannis(a)konstantinidis.cc
>>
>Disagreeing is pretty ok, but this can be done much better and less
>offensive. I'm sure you didn't mean it like I understand your post, and
>that's exactly the point. I'm also sure Robert didn't want to offense
>anybody here.
>Ah, and I'm saying one of the most correct because I know him and
>anybody
>can look at his history.
>That's all, let's not waste more time on this and use the efforts to
>have
>some fun again.
I'm really surprised of the reaction of some people here. Our foundation
is about being Friends. It's not about being Friends, unless you are a long
time contributor and have a free pass insulting volunteers and local
communities.
Let's indeed focus in important things, like empowering local communities.
Instead of letting our personal relations cloud our judgement.
~nikos
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