If you don't understand German, check out the following web page
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Programm OpenExpo 2008 Zürich veröffentlicht
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:37:33 +0200
From: OpenExpo <contact(a)openexpo.ch>
To: Fabian Affolter <fabian.affolter(a)fedoraproject.org>
English: The new OpenExpo program is published: http://openexpo.ch/en
Sehr geehrter Herr Affolter
Es freut uns sehr, Ihnen heute das vollständige Programm der OpenExpo
2008 Zürich bekanntgeben zu können, die am 24./25. September 2008 in den
Eulachhallen Winterthur stattfinden wird! Lesen Sie dazu und zu weiteren
wichtigen Informationen rund um die OpenExpo den aktuellen Newsletter.
Freundliche Grüsse, das OpenExpo Organisationskomitee
Mit renommierten nationalen und internationalen Persönlichkeiten wie
Bruce Perens (Gründer Open Source Initiative), Peter Fischer
(Delegierter Informatikstrategieorgan Bund), Stefan Arn (Präsident
ICTswitzerland, UBS), Tristan Nitot (Mozilla Europe) und Harald Welte
(gpl-violations.org) bietet das Konferenzprogramm reichhaltiges
Expertenwissen in 40 Fachreferaten. In der Messeausstellung werden 20
Unternehmen ihre Dienstleistungen und Produkte basierend auf Freier
Software vorstellen und Community-Mitglieder im persönlichen Gespräch
Fragen zu 40 Open Source Projekten beantworten.
Wiederum wurde ein Veranstaltungs-Prospekt gedruckt, der umfassend über
die kommende OpenExpo informiert:
Dieser wird allen Newsletter-Abonnenten gratis zugeschickt, die bis am
5. August 2008 eine Schweizer Postadresse angegeben haben:
Ausserdem können jeweils 25, 50 oder 100 Exemplare des Prospekts
kostenlos bis am 5. August 2008 bestellt werden:
SPONSOREN UND PARTNER
Durch die wertvolle Unterstützung von grosszügigen Sponsoren ist die
OpenExpo weiterhin kostenlos zugänglich für alle Besucher. Grossen Dank
geht somit an die Platin-Sponsoren SyGroup www.sygroup.ch und Archivista
www.archivista.ch, an die Gold-Sponsoren Red Hat www.redhat.de und
Swisscom www.swisscom.ch sowie an die Silber-Sponsoren LIIP www.liip.ch,
Ingres www.ingres.com und Sun Microsystems www.sun.ch. Ebenfalls hoch
geschätzt werden die Partnerschaften mit zahlreichen Medienunternehmen,
Verbänden und anderen Veranstaltungen. Und last but not least soll der
topsoft Messe für Business Software gedankt werden, welche die OpenExpo
seit 2006 finanziell und organisatorisch gefördert hat.
LETZTE FREIE FIRMENSTÄNDE
Noch sind fünf Plätze frei in der Firmenausstellung der kommenden
OpenExpo. Der All-Inclusive Stand ist für CHF 3600 für beide Messetage
zu mieten und kann reserviert werden unter:
NETZWOCHE SPECIAL ÜBER OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE
Zum ersten Mal wird für die OpenExpo 2008 Zürich eine
Netzwoche-Sonderausgabe über Open Source Software herausgegeben. Die
Mediadaten geben detailliert Auskunft über diese Spezialausgabe, die dem
September-Versand der Netzwoche beigelegt und an der OpenExpo kostenlos
an alle Besucher abgegeben wird:
NOCH 2 WOCHEN BIS ZUR HACKONTEST-VORSELEKTION
Der von Google gesponserte 24h-Programmiermarathon Hackontest wird
eines der grossen Highlights der kommenden OpenExpo sein. Bereits hat er
international breites Medienecho ausgelöst, nahezu 800 registrierte
Teilnehmer tragen aktiv zu einer spannenden Vorselektion bei. Noch bis
am 31. Juli 2008 können Open Source Projekte eingetragen und
Funktionalitätswünsche eingebracht und bewertet werden:
Persönliche Angaben ändern oder Newsletter abbestellen:
It's better to be free! | www.openexpo.ch | contact(a)openexpo.ch
OpenExpo | Schweizer Event für Freie und Open Source Software
Veranstaltet durch den Verein /ch/open | www.ch-open.ch
Fingerprint: 2F6C 930F D3C4 7E38 6AFA 4EB4 E23C D2DD 36A4 397F
Fedora always leads and never follows.
I was shortly speaking about this on the IRC meeting last night, but to
reach the EMEA people who were not able to attend and as a little
reminder to those who were participating, I'll say a few words here on
the list too.
This only affects you, if you're living within EMEA and actually plan to
attend the FAD EMEA 2008.
We need your feedback in order to make this a great event:
- what you liked/didn't like about the last FAD EMEA (not to compare
with FAD at LinuxTag, IMHO).
- in what this city should take place. Basel and Amsterdam are in
discussion already. Add your name to the list or add another city if you
- what duration is best for you. Last year, it went from Friday evening
(dinner) to Sunday morning (travel back after breakfast).
- if you have a topic to discuss at the event. Please note, that we're
very limited in time.
- if you have an idea for lodging in one of the cities we might choose
or if you have any idea how to save more money on this.
- what sort of fun/fringe events you'd like to see or how you liked them
- what you think about food. Was it ok like last year? Do you wish to
taste some local specialities of the city/country where the event takes
- whatever else comes to your mind.
Now, the mailinglist is ok to discuss this. But actually, we'd prefer if
you state your opinions on the according page:
Especially as for the city to choose, we'd need your name on the list on
the page. same goes for the attendees.
Thanks for your help!
HTML version of the log is here:
Raw log is here:
<fabian_a> Welcome everybody. Let's have Fedora Ambassadors Meeting
EMEA. It's 20.00 UTC
* spevack is here
<Milanito> lets have it
<fabian_a> i guess a lot of ambassadors are around
<fabian_a> let's start...please state your wiki name please (aka roll call)
<spevack> Max Spevack
* stickster has changed the topic to: Fedora Ambassadors meeting
<spevack> stickster: hi!
* stickster has changed the topic to: Fedora Ambassadors EMEA
<rsc> Well, wiki name? User:robert
<fabian_a> stickster: thanks
<spevack> I love seeing all these people here!
* stickster didn't clean up well after himself, sorry
<stickster> Uh oh, we left the coffee pot on, too.
<stickster> Holy moley, I wish this was the Docs meeting :-D
<fabian_a> Just a reminder. We'll still follow our meeting protocol to
make this meeting quick and efficient.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Protocol . Thank you
<red_alert> I wish there were always so many ppl at our meetings ;)
<fabian_a> sorry, wiki name is not correct anymore but good to see that
most attendees can remember the old style
<fabian_a> Now, please open our meeting page at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings/2008-07-16 for the agenda
<fabian_a> 1. News from FAmSCo
<fabian_a> i would like to pass the ball to fugolini because I was off
the during the last month
<fugolini> Thank you
<spevack> after fugolini, i will say a few words
<fabian_a> spevack: thank you
<fugolini> i don't want to discuss about budget
<fugolini> personally i want only to underline the importance to have
feedback from the community to better adress our work
<fugolini> we discussed about the local situations, and i think it would
be a great thing to know what you need and what you want to see from FAmSCo
<fugolini> just this. eof
<fabian_a> spevack, please
<spevack> I'd like to add a little bit to what fugolini is saying.
First of all,
<spevack> I think everyone in EMEA community should be very proud of
<spevack> because you are setting an example for how to run an
Ambassadors program in a large continent with many different languages
<spevack> and it is wonderful work.
<spevack> From the FAMSCo perspective, I want to mention two things:
<spevack> 1) We are in the process of making sure that we have a list of
all the events that will take place from September - November
<spevack> so please make sure, if you have an event, or you know about
an event, that you add it to the page
<spevack> 2) FAMSCo will be making another contribution to Fedora EMEA
e.V. in August -- not sure what the exact amount will be yet, but
probably 1500 - 2000 EUR
<spevack> fabian_a: should I talk more about Fedora EMEA e.v. now, or later?
<fabian_a> we can talk later about Fedora EMEA
<spevack> ok, then as far as FAMSCo, that is all for me. EOF. Any
questions or comments?
<fabian_a> ok, next
<fabian_a> kital: would you like to tell us something your work for the
Ambassadors Membership Verification Service?
<spevack> kital: your work on that is *excellent* :)
<spevack> thank you so much
<kital> thanks for the flowers
<kital> wait i had i had 227 Konversations since Linuxtag
<kital> we had 148 Requests for membership
<fabian_a> kital: thanks
<bochecha> sorry if I am a bit late on this, but what exactly is this
membership verification service ?
<kital> bochecha: this is simple the process to approve and guide new
Ambassadors into the Probation Period and Membership
<fabian_a> anything else about membership verification? questions?
* fcrippa_ is back... (sorry, umts connection....)
<fabian_a> next point...events
<spevack> bochecha: kital has done excellent work in helping to automate
this process, and build infrastructure around it
<fabian_a> LUG Radio Live?
<spevack> This is a comparatively small event.
<spevack> I am giving one of the "keynote" speeches.
<spevack> it will be similar to the speech I gave at LinuxTag during our
<spevack> because that message -- of how we build our community and
prioritize the decisions that we make -- is one we are trying to spread
<spevack> I was hoping that JonathanRoberts would be able to attend the
event, but it didn't work out.
<spevack> So there will only be a few other Red Hat people there, who
are in the UK.
<spevack> but I will be representing Fedora
<spevack> and hoping to recruit a few new people to the project
<spevack> mostly, we are going to that event because the organizers
asked me to speak.
<fabian_a> spevack: thanks for the details
<fabian_a> FrOSCon 2008?
<spevack> I will write an event report for Fedora Planet and ambassadors
* spevack looks at red_alert :)
<RodrigoPadula> hi guys,
<RodrigoPadula> famsco meeting ?
<spevack> hi RodrigoPadula: Fedora EMEA meeting, actually
<fabian_a> RodrigoPadula: yes
<fabian_a> RodrigoPadula: no, ambassadors meeting
<red_alert> me? uhm...I think there's nothing new on FrOSCon that's on
on the mailing list. I hope the other organizers are doing something too ;)
<spevack> RodrigoPadula: ping fugolini in #fedora-mktg and he'll tell
you about FAMSCo
<spevack> red_alert: ok, so let's talk about what needs to be done.
<spevack> what needs to be done?
<red_alert> I won't be able to attend the event as I announced so I was
hoping for the other owners (spevack and romal) to take over
<spevack> red_alert: I missed your announcement, I'm sorry.
<spevack> so, what needs to be done? We know that we have a speaking slot.
<red_alert> you wrote the list what's needed yourself ;)
<spevack> i believe that we need to figure out what to do about some
swag for the event.
<spevack> red_alert: obviously I am a bit confused tonight :)
<spevack> ok, so mostly the needs are swag
<red_alert> I think you definately need an accomodation before anything
<spevack> red_alert: yes, that is true :)
<spevack> I wanted to ask in this meeting, either Gerold or kital, if we
can make some shirts from a company here that we have used before?
<spevack> I would like to pay for them from Fedora EMEA budget, and use
them for various events
<spevack> but I do not have the contacts with the companies. and maybe
other folks do?
<spevack> kital: go ahead!
<spevack> please! :)
<kital> i will make it!
<spevack> kital: ok, I will send you email and we can figure out design,
quantity, sizes, etc.?
<spevack> ok. Great.
<spevack> Then I think we are mostly ok for FrOSCon, at least for this
<spevack> kital: i will follow up with you tomorrow, ok?
<fabian_a> thank you guys
<spevack> fabian_a: you wanted to talk about Open Expo?
<fabian_a> in September after FUDCon the autumn edition of the annual
Swiss open source event named OpenExpo will take place at Winterthur
<fabian_a> it's a small event with around 1000 visitors
<fabian_a> for detail check
<fabian_a> if you want to join us, please drop me a line...
<GeroldKa> me wants to drop the line; I have 6 OLPC for you for OpenExpo
<GeroldKa> and also from now until then with a small interrupt of two weeks
<spevack> GeroldKa: where did you get 6 OLPCs??? that is incredible
<spevack> GeroldKa: hello, by the way :)
<GeroldKa> and also sorry for late I worked until now
<GeroldKa> hi there max
<red_alert> just as a sidenote: we don't have space at openexpo for 6 olpc
<fabian_a> with 6 olpcs we will ahve a problem with the space at ypur so
<spevack> maybe we don't bring all 6 to Open Expo :)
<GeroldKa> it`s up to you, but I have them borrowed (also for OpenExpo)
<GeroldKa> if you don't want them ...
<fabian_a> but it's good to know that this machines are only 100 km away
<GeroldKa> OK, no doubt
<GeroldKa> I found some other guys who want to have them at that time
<spevack> fabian_a: FAMSCo will allocate official budget for OpenExpo in
August, when FAMSCo makes all the budget planning for Q3 (September -
November). But you know this since you are in FAMSCo ;)
<spevack> but it is an important event
<spevack> jan wildeboer from red hat will be there
<spevack> and several other Red Hat people
<spevack> there will be meetings about Open Standards, I think, that Jan
will be in
<spevack> one of the things that I am going to try to do for all of us
soon is get a list from Andrea Schneider of all the events that Red Hat
Marketing is going to in EMEA, so that we can always know when there is
overlap with Fedora Events.
<fabian_a> in September there will be a lot of events...FUDCon,
OpenExpo, PCL, GITEX, and on and on
<fabian_a> some more about events?
<spevack> ! (but MrTom first)
<MrTom> about the events, what is also important is to keep up to date
the pages of the wiki. And I know for sure that it is a very difficult
<MrTom> however it helps a lot to know who / what /when / why when
FAMSCO is allocating budgets to your events, so please keep this in
mind. Up to date pages is not useless at all
<spevack> I want to quickly mention FUDCon
<spevack> I will be updating the page in great detail tomorrow or
Friday, before I leave for UK and LUG Radio Live
<spevack> But we know that it will be in Czech Republic (Brno),
September 5-7. Saturday Sep. 6 will be the most "important" day.
<spevack> Also I will be able to give hotel information soon. It seems
very inexpensive, especially if people share a room.
<spevack> More information next week... but I hope that many people can
go. We will do one FUDCon in EMEA every year.
<spevack> This year in Czech Republic.
<spevack> Next year, somewhere else! :)
<spevack> also, there will be special FUDCon tshirts. EOF
<GeroldKa> I prefer Switzerland next year
<red_alert> +1 ;)
<GeroldKa> I also offered you University of Basel as Event Place
<stickster> Any time
* stickster hits wrong channel, sorry
<spevack> And maybe next year we will do that. The Czech Repbulic was
chosen specially this year because it is very important that we involve
the Red Hat engineers in that country more deeply in Fedora community.
When we plan 2009 FUDCon EMEA, we will discuss all options for location.
<spevack> GeroldKa: any place we can get a relationship with a
university is very interesting to me.
<spevack> we will be at a university in Brno also
<red_alert> I'd also know a company in Switzerland who'd help us with
some money if we'd do it here. eof
<fugolini> I think it would be better to chose a city near a cheap
airport, I think we have to make a list of chear airline
<fugolini> *cheap airlines by country and the countries they cover
<fcrippa> fugolini: +1
<spevack> fugolini: great idea
<fugolini> e.g. For Basel a flight in october cost 400€
<GeroldKa> and to Brno?
<fugolini> this means that if i book the flight in september it will
<GeroldKa> or Zurich?
<GeroldKa> or Stuttgart?
<fugolini> GeroldKa: Brno, direct flight 400, i think i'll take a cheap
<fugolini> from Wien or Prague
<spevack> I also will travel to Paris on August 2 to meet with MrTom and
as many people from the Fedora-fr community as we can gather.
<MrTom> (about 15)
<spevack> I am looking forward to that, because it will allow us to plan
and discuss things in that country in great detail
<GeroldKa> its 500 kms
<spevack> EOF from me
<fabian_a> anything else about the upcoming FUDCon?
<Milanito> we are very glad you are coming spevack
<spevack> fabian_a: nothing else right now. I will email
ambassadors-list when i have more updates
<spevack> Milanito: me too!
<fabian_a> spevack: thanks
<red_alert> spevack: don't forget to mention the weekly meetings about
<spevack> right. we have a weekly planning meeting on Tuesdays at 13:00
UTC in #fedora-meeting
<spevack> for FUDCon Brno
<spevack> red_alert: thank you :)
<fabian_a> now...FAD EMEA
<fabian_a> spevack or red_alert please
<red_alert> well, we wanted to get an idea of what people think
<spevack> red_alert: you go ahead :)
<red_alert> how they liked/disliked about the last FAD EMEA near Basel
at the German/Swiss border
<red_alert> place, duration, topics, lodging, fun/fringe events, food,
<red_alert> in order to make it even better this year, we need some feedback
<red_alert> so please go to the event site that max posted above and tell us
<red_alert> we'd also like to hear ideas about how to spend the
budget...on travel, lodging, fun activities, ...
<red_alert> if you have an idea in what city we could do it and maybe
have good reasons to prefer that city - tell us
<red_alert> what did I forget, spevack?
<spevack> there are several questions and items to comment on in the
wiki page. feel free to leave your comments.
<spevack> red_alert: you got it all
<red_alert> questions / comments right now?
<GeroldKa> I thought you want to "rename my Baby" Max
<GeroldKa> as: Fedora Activity Day
<spevack> GeroldKa: that is a separate idea, but it also uses the FAD
acronym. I haven't had time to pursue that idea yeat
<spevack> you had a comment?
* wonderer1 raises hand ;-)
<MrTom> about spending the budget, it always remains difficult to know
what to spend it on. There used to have a discussion about financing
lodging and not travel, so as every people are equal in the eyes of
famso, however we are not equal in term of distance / travel and i think
that we shloud finance traveling
<wonderer1> may I something ask. maybe I d
<spevack> wonderer1: go ahead
<MrTom> so as to fight againt inequalities among us. Financing travel
for the farthest pple, and lodging for the closest.
<spevack> wonderer1: you go, then I will respond to MrTom with my
thoughts, and then see what other people think
<wonderer1> maybe i did'nt get a / the remindermail to this meeting. Or
isnt there such a mail lets say hald a day before..?!
<spevack> wonderer1: that was a typo, a second mail was sent out fixing it.
<spevack> wonderer1: sorry for any confusion!
<wonderer1> spevack: Ok. because I did'nt get yet any Announcement Mail
today. I think several days ago some goes over the list. Baut "today"
(lets say "last reminder" ... I will check this next time ;-) Thanks.
<spevack> MrTom: I tend to agree with you. Speaking in general, when I
manage the Fedora budget on the whole, I try to make sure that budget
goes to the people who need it the most. I also try to make sure it is
generally balanced, but if one person gets more support than another, it
doesn't bother me as long as everyone is getting as much help as we can
give them, and as they need.
<spevack> But I do not want to dictate policy for all of you.
<spevack> I think that it is necessary for us to first have a full
balance of the money that Fedora EMEA e.V. has.
<spevack> we can add to that the money we know will come to Fedora EMEA
e.V. from Red Hat and Fedora Project
<spevack> and then we can decide as a group how to spend it.
<spevack> one of the things I will also do in the next week or two is
give a full Treasurer report for Fedora EMEA e.V. I have all the
documents, I just need to go through them.
<MrTom> or maybe decide of an amount of money to give to people to help
them to come, and let them decide how to give it away
<wonderer1> is maybe there a statistic how much % on small / middle /
big events was spend on travel, accomondation, food & drinks,
merchandising, Fedore CD/DVD, etc.?
<fabian_a> wonderer1: can you please follow the meeting protocol
<GeroldKa> MrTom, I also thought about that idea
<GeroldKa> but I personally follow the item
<GeroldKa> the same amount for every attendee
<GeroldKa> or at best pay the same amount for everyone for the room
<GeroldKa> that fair to everybody and als transparent to everybody
<spevack> wonderer1: we have some metrics. For LinuxTag, we have very
detailed breakdowns of hotel cost, travel cost, food cost, etc.
<spevack> for smaller events, we tend to give some budget to the event
organizer and let that person decide how best to spend it
<spevack> LinuxTag and FUDcon are special cases
<spevack> GeroldKa: I think transparency is the key. As long as we are
transparent about where the money goes, people can make comments. I
believe that with the Fedora Budget the last 2.5 years (or however long
I have been doing Fedora), we are the most transparent of any Linux
Distribution in the world, and we will keep doing this. Also with
Fedora EMEA e.V. -- I am just a little bit behind :)
<wonderer1> spaveck, yes thats what I mean. Can there be made some
matrix as "if planing try 10% for boothrent, 25-30% travel, etc." so
someone is new to that (espacially Ambassadors) can plan that. Then ther
would maybe not so often be a discussion or confusion.
<wonderer1> I do planning on Europewide Events for several years
<wonderer1> that is often planning on a small team. At bigger events
that could help i Think. Also what MrTom says "on what i can spend wich
amounT" etc. can better be planned
<spevack> wonderer1: those are all good points. I can go back to the
linuxTag budget and see what the percentages were.
<wonderer1> the Budget Plan someone gives to Fedora "I need xyz for this
Event" could better verified and compared.
<spevack> that will give some idea
<spevack> EOF from me too. i will get back to you
* fcrippa 's laptop battery is near to be dead... another 5-10 minutes...
<spevack> fabian_a: what else?
<GeroldKa> next year, we have to pay for booth (at Linuxtag btw.)
* kital has to go
<fabian_a> i guess we are done for today...
<fabian_a> we skip the "open floor"
<spevack> GeroldKa: We will factor that into budget
<spevack> GeroldKa: for next year's linuxtag
<spevack> GeroldKa: and you and i will plan in advance with andrea and
<spevack> fabian_a: I just want to say thank you for running the
meeting, and thank you to everyone for coming!
<fabian_a> anything else? Any more questions or issues before we close
* wonderer1 claps hands
* Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving")
<fcrippa> can we consider 5-6-7 of September "official" and "definitive"
date for FUDCon?
<spevack> fcrippa: yes
<fcrippa> (just in time :-)
<spevack> fcrippa: we have space booked at university in Brno for those
<fabian_a> acc. to spevack the date is fixed
<fcrippa> spevack: great!
<red_alert> reminder for everyone: don't forget to post your ideas about
the upcoming FAD on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADEMEA2008 - we
need your opinions!
<fcrippa> fugolini: we can organize our trip
<spevack> fabian_a: thank you!
<fabian_a> Fedora Ambassadors Meeting EMEA 2008-07-16 has been
adjourned. Next meeting in August 2008.
Meeting minutes can also be found here:
18:28 < gregdek> /me looks around.
18:29 -!- gregdek changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora
Ambassadors North America: Tuesday, July 15th, 9pm Eastern US time
18:55 < gregdek> 7 minutes to meeting time. :)
19:00 < gregdek> 2 minutes to meeting time.
19:02 < gregdek> DING!
19:02 < gregdek> ROLL CALL!
19:02 < lxmaier_home> AlexMaier
19:02 < pcalarco> PascalCalarco
19:03 < inode0> JohnRose
19:03 * gregdek waits a minute or two for stragglers.
19:05 < herlo> herlo
19:05 < gregdek> All right.
19:05 < gregdek> So, we've got four North American ambassadors. Well done.
19:05 < herlo> thanks for holding the meeting later, I really appreciate it :)
19:06 < gregdek> My pleasure. :)
19:06 < gregdek> So let me start with a very blunt first question:
19:06 < gregdek> What purpose does this meeting serve?
19:06 < pcalarco> !
19:06 < inode0> who called it? :)
19:07 < gregdek> pcalarco: This meeting is too small for the
formalities. Speak your mind. :)
19:07 < herlo> I don't think he's asking to actually know...
19:07 < pcalarco> ok :)
19:07 < pcalarco> it seems like we've mostly used the meetings for
updates on upcoming cons, media requests and such, from the time I
19:07 < herlo> I think gregdek has an idea where he wants this meeting
to go and is giving us an opportunity to drive at it...
19:08 < inode0> I'd like to see something materialize to get some
juices flowing in the NA group - it needs an injection to get off life
19:08 < pcalarco> I think the time could be more constructively used
19:08 * herlo agrees
19:09 < gregdek> OK.
19:09 * gregdek goes into rambling old man mode. Ready? :)
19:09 < herlo> One thing I'd like to see is a way to help ambassadors
spread the word a bit more.
19:10 < lxmaier_home> bring it on!
19:10 < herlo> yep
19:10 < pcalarco> sure :)
19:10 < ke4qqq> sure
19:10 < gregdek> So when we created the ambassadors group, what, going
on three years ago, Alex?
19:11 < lxmaier_home> something like that
19:11 < gregdek> The goal was straightforward and ambitious:
19:11 < gregdek> To have a significant Fedora presence at every event
in the world.
19:11 < gregdek> With "event" being loosely defined.
19:11 < gregdek> From my perspective, that is still a worthwhile goal.
19:12 < gregdek> And I think we've come a long way towards that goal.
19:12 < gregdek> I think it's important to have a fairly focused goal,
because that increases the chance of actually achieving it.
19:12 < gregdek> So, ladies and gentlemen, for North America -- is
that still the correct goal?
19:13 < gregdek> I open the floor.
19:13 * inode0 doesn't really think so
19:13 < inode0> in NA redhat covers so many conferences ambassadors
might be more productive spreading the word more regionally
19:14 < inode0> local FUGs, university talks, etc.
19:14 < pcalarco> +1
19:14 < lxmaier_home> a mission statement, a goal, needs to be clear
and actionable. our original goal was a bit broad but very actionable.
you see an
"event" and so you make sure you represent fedora there.
19:14 < lxmaier_home> event=local LUG, school science fair, you name it
19:15 < lxmaier_home> so in a way, inode0 we agree on this one
19:15 < herlo> the biggest problem with that goal is enabling
ambassadors quickly and easily.
19:15 < lxmaier_home> herlo: do you mean an infrastructure to enable
19:15 < herlo> no
19:15 < herlo> hold on, more to say
19:15 < ke4qqq> Having been around and observing most of those years,
I think EMEA ambassadors do a better job than NA does. I don't know
why, perhaps just
perception. I'd also like to see significant presence
more firmly defined. I agree with herlo - most events I have been in I
months of planning, and tend to be smaller - and it's
a difficult job getting the resources on hand that fast.
19:16 < herlo> well, it could be some infrastructure, but more like a
standard procedure with tools at every turn. I think a lot about how
in marketing its brand
19:16 < inode0> who represents Fedora at Linux World? do ambassadors
or does Red Hat?
19:16 < herlo> while our brand is different, I find that we have a lot
of the common goals. Get people to use Fedora
19:17 < inode0> I think this is where EMEA and NA are just different
because of Red Hat's presence
19:17 < herlo> and to do that, we need to have a way of providing
people a quick easy experience
19:17 < herlo> Every time I want to share that word with people, I
burn cds, but sometimes I find them to be a little less than
19:17 < lxmaier_home> inode0: red hat in emea hardly goes to
local/regional events -- i am not even sure they were at linuxTag
19:17 < herlo> so I usually spend a good bit of time making labels and
preparing sleeves, etc among other things
19:18 < herlo> going to a LUG meeting, I can get a forum, but I really
need a topic
19:18 < gregdek> How much of the difference between NA events and the
rest of the world has to do with the relative maturity of Linux is NA?
19:18 < lxmaier_home> herlo: that's a good idea I think i am hearing:
a talk topic repo?
19:18 < herlo> some of those are easy, others are hard, but promoting
fedora should be based upon simplistic, measureable ways to get in
front of as many
people as we can...
19:18 < herlo> lxmaier_home: hey...
19:18 < ke4qqq> Greg, could be - I think Alex has a point - the EMEA
Ambassadors seem pretty self-sufficient, while we heavily rely on RH.
19:19 < herlo> lxmaier_home: sounds good
19:19 < gregdek> Fair point.
19:19 < ke4qqq> lxmaier_home: didn't we used to have some 'canned'
presentations that Rahul and Chitlesh worked up, around FC5 or 6?
19:19 < gregdek> The self-sufficiency of EMEA ambassadors seems to
empower them, to drive them to *want* to do more.
19:19 < ke4qqq> exactly!
19:19 < gregdek> Since they own the Fedora brand in Europe.
19:20 < ke4qqq> while we seem to be waiting for some sanction
19:20 < lxmaier_home> what i meant earlier when i said
"infrastructure" was basically that: a set of procedures and some
content to enable self-sufficient
ambassadors to do whatever they think needs to be done
19:20 < herlo> a talk topic repo is good, but I think there are more
things we can do
19:20 < herlo> lxmaier_home: I saw that after you mentioned it, I
should have been less quick to react
19:20 < pcalarco> EventBox, for example
19:20 < lxmaier_home> ke4qqq: yeah, we did. I am certain they're still
on the wiki
19:21 < ke4qqq> we talked about 'ambassador kits' (and I am sorry to
beat a dead horse, but I remember that from back when you first sent
emails to LUGs,
Greg. Why aren't we sending out a 'kit' at every
release to ambassadors with pressed CD/DVDs, etc.
19:21 < herlo> event boxes seem to be hard to build, but an event kit,
I could get behind. Something simple...
19:22 < lxmaier_home> ke4qqq: money? and also lack of volunteers to
run the logistict
19:22 < pcalarco> agreed
19:22 < herlo> yeah, stickers, hats, etc...
19:22 < lxmaier_home> not to say that we *shouldn't* try to do that
19:22 < lxmaier_home> just stating what i perceive to be the reason
why we didn't
19:22 < inode0> well, I'd like to toss out a suggestion
19:23 < gregdek> Shoot.
19:23 < ke4qqq> lxmaier_home: I'd agree - but RHNA is already sending
out the stuff - I have asked Greg and Max and FAMSCO to send stuff for
events and it
gets sent to me every time. It seems like we waste
more time going through the appropriations process than anything else.
19:23 < inode0> rather than events per se how about shifting the focus
to talks given, something quantifiable
19:24 * herlo actually thinks that it'd be nice just to *have* the
stuff on hand. No event necessary
19:24 < inode0> shoot for a goal of X talks given wherever by NA
ambassadors in support of F10
19:24 < lxmaier_home> ke4qqq: i have been out of the loop for a while,
so i don't know how cumbersome the current approval process is.
19:24 < ke4qqq> herlo: exactly.
19:24 < herlo> maybe justification, but why an event?
19:24 < inode0> try to beat that for F11
19:24 < ke4qqq> lxmaier_home: well most people circumvent the process
now, and call someone at RH who fedexes stuff - at least that's my
talking with others
19:24 < lxmaier_home> i think we are talking about hte same thing,
just disagreeing about semantics of the word "event"
19:25 < gregdek> The current approval process for NA is incredibly vague.
19:25 < ke4qqq> but the process isn't much different than when you
were actively involved, Alex.
19:25 < lxmaier_home> i would say event is anything where more than
one person is present and an ambassador speaks about fedora
19:25 < herlo> so lets put approval process on a list and start hammering it out
19:25 < gregdek> So here's the thing...
19:26 < gregdek> ...I don't think it's as simple as an approval
process for how RH gets schwag to NA ambassadors.
19:26 < gregdek> I think it's a broader question of who *owns* NA ambassadors.
19:26 < ke4qqq> so why not at every Fedora release offer people with a
current CLA and ambassadors membership the opportunity to 'order' a
kit with some
Fedora art and CDs and maybe some stickers.
19:26 < herlo> ke4qqq: I think we're getting to that now
19:26 < lxmaier_home> i hoped back in my day that the approval process
will go like this: 0. ambassador wants to do something like a LUG talk
wants to give out schwag 2. ambassador says to
the famsco why s/he needs the money/schwag 3. ambassador gets the
19:27 < herlo> lxmaier_home: I like it
19:27 < herlo> gregdek: what do you mean *owns* NA Ambassadors?
19:27 < herlo> is that an internal RH thing?
19:27 < gregdek> It is precisely *not* an internal RH thing.
19:28 < lxmaier_home> so the "request form" and all the rules were
created back then to clarify the process, not to complicate it.
19:28 < gregdek> At least, it *should not* be.
19:28 * herlo agrees
19:28 < ke4qqq> gregdek: based on how things operate - I'd say RH owns
NA Ambassadors - we are too dependent on them. Famsco to a lesser
degree - but really
we see precious little of them.
19:28 < gregdek> Nope.
19:28 < gregdek> We must break that dependency.
19:28 < gregdek> Personally, I think:
19:29 < gregdek> a. Ambassadors are more invested when they can
operate autonomously, and RH should give funding, but *not*
19:29 < lxmaier_home> +1
19:29 < ke4qqq> +1
19:29 < gregdek> b. FAMSCO is a broken concept that does not take
regional needs into account.
19:29 < herlo> +1 on b
19:29 < gregdek> As the founder of FAMSCO, I humbly apologize for it.
19:29 < gregdek> Well, perhaps it was useful for its time, but as
ambassadors around the world get up and run, it's outliving its
19:29 < ke4qqq> It was useful in the early days - but I think the
growth has made it obsolete
19:29 < herlo> I need to ask a simple question about a. To whom does
RH give the funding?
19:30 < gregdek> Good question.
19:30 < gregdek> In EMEA, we give it to various folks to help make
19:30 < herlo> is it direct to NA ambassadors? Or to FAMSCo or some such
19:30 < herlo> because to be honest, I personally don't want money, I
want the swag
19:30 < gregdek> In LATAM, we give almost all of it to Rodrigo Padula
da Oliveira in Brazil, and he makes things happen.
19:30 < herlo> so I can give it out to those who show interest
19:30 < gregdek> That makes us the gate for the schwag.
19:31 < herlo> us == FAMSco?
19:31 < gregdek> That means that you get one type of t-shirt, one type
of hat, one type of sticker.
19:31 < gregdek> us == RH.
19:31 < herlo> k
19:31 < ke4qqq> There are some efficiencies because of that - RH has
economies of scale.
19:31 < gregdek> And the EMEA ambassadors make LOGO BATHROBES.
19:31 < gregdek> That may be true.
19:31 < herlo> so do these folks in EMEA and LATAM manage that for the
19:31 < herlo> that == Money
19:32 < gregdek> We disburse funds in some cases.
19:32 < gregdek> Community folks raise some limited cash in some cases.
19:32 < herlo> right, and I've seen that be the case in some areas in NA too
19:33 < lxmaier_home> just think about shipping/handling and inventory overhead
19:33 < ke4qqq> Unfortunately our dependence has bred some ignorance -
for instance does anyone (outside of RH) know how many Fedora CDs we
burn per release?
If the community were to start we'd flounder a bit -
not that it's a bad thing, but it's a rough learning curve.
19:33 < lxmaier_home> i know it is easier to ask for "30 stickers and
20 t-shirts please"
19:33 < herlo> I'm willing to get reimbursed in some *certain*
situations, but overall, I think its better to have it in one place
19:33 < gregdek> I'm not saying "NO SCHWAG EVER".
19:33 < gregdek> But I am saying that a reliance on RH leads to a lot
of same old same old.
19:34 < lxmaier_home> having an inventory to manage -- and to ship
from raleigh nc to say california is not the most efficient way to do
19:34 < inode0> how many NA ambassadors asked for swag last year?
19:34 < herlo> I'd like to go back to the Ubuntu model for comparison.
They use a company called shipit to send out CDs to their Loco
Leaders, this might be
feasible for that and other things??
19:34 < ke4qqq> and how many obtained it through back RH channels
19:34 < gregdek> Everyone emailed Max or Paul or me.
19:34 < gregdek> Is that back channel? Not really.
19:35 < ke4qqq> it's not the stated process.
19:35 < gregdek> Nope. But it's the degenerative case for that process.
19:35 < herlo> the stated process doesn't even work right now. It
says you must fill out a form that isn't available atm
19:35 < gregdek> And most people, once they get to know that, sidestep
19:35 < gregdek> Right. :)
19:35 < gregdek> And why is this?
19:35 < lxmaier_home> i was looking on the wiki for the rules for
resource request and could not find them
19:35 < gregdek> IMHO, because there's no group to steward the process in NA.
19:36 < herlo> I have no problems following the process actually.
Just wonder who controls that and why its not online much of the time
19:36 < herlo> lxmaier_home: I will find it for you, hold on
19:36 < herlo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors#Resources
19:36 < lxmaier_home> i found the broken stuff--not the stuff i
remember posting 18 months ago
19:36 < herlo> oh, right, okay
19:37 < ke4qqq> so how do we (as a community) take ownership?
19:37 < inode0> I ask because I'm interested in engaging the existing
ambassadors to be more involved and I don't think swag is the problem
19:37 < gregdek> So here's the thing.
19:37 < lxmaier_home> but i like the point gregdek is making: all
other regions have a regional ambassadors organization. NA doesn't
19:37 < gregdek> The most functional ambassadors groups in the world
-- EMEA and LATAM -- all *ignore* these pages.
19:37 < lxmaier_home> that would explain why it's not as vibrant as the others.
19:38 < gregdek> They have created their own structures, because our
structure was not even represented in their language!
19:38 < gregdek> So as a result, they built their own house to their standards.
19:38 < gregdek> And those house are *awesome*.
19:38 < gregdek> The people who showed up tonight...
19:38 < gregdek> ...are the people who give a shit. Plain and simple.
19:38 < herlo> agreed
19:38 < gregdek> You are the leaders, by default.
19:39 < gregdek> And my job is to help you figure out what *you* want to do...
19:39 < gregdek> ...and give you resources where I can...
19:39 < gregdek> ...and get the hell out of your way.
19:39 < gregdek> If the wiki sucks, build your own process, starting now.
19:40 < gregdek> I can give you my entire inventory of NA schwag, and
in the future, I can give you a budget.
19:40 < gregdek> And you use it *any way you see fit*.
19:40 < lxmaier_home> honestly, i think i could manage the
19:41 < lxmaier_home> if we all agree on the guidelines (e.g. as i
stated above or whatever) i can volunteer to do the backend for the
19:41 < ke4qqq> Greg - I like decentralizing the swag stuff - it's
symbolic of tranfer of authority, but I think there is more to it than
that. I don't know
a solution though.
19:41 < gregdek> lxmaier_home: Oh, I'm sure you could. You have before.
19:41 < gregdek> ke4qqq: I'll tell you what. We can get together
every couple of weeks and talk it out until we *do* know.
19:42 < gregdek> But none of this "hmm, I forgot the meeting" stuff.
That is an absolute soul killer.
19:42 < lxmaier_home> i do strongly lean towards the "you want to run
an event, you get the money payPaled to you and off you go!"
19:42 * herlo agrees that putting regional people in charge might
work, but we still need a central repository of information
19:42 < gregdek> One sec...
19:42 * gregdek rummages around...
19:42 < lxmaier_home> so we get crazy collectable schwag like EMEA does
19:43 < lxmaier_home>
just found the old document
19:43 < gregdek> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/MarketingCollateral
19:43 < herlo> I have some of that already printed
19:43 < ke4qqq> per state or per region? Greg - the meetings used to
be very alive - but we had a ton of authority. I remember arguing with
2-sided vs. 1-sided DVDs in the past as that was
within our purview.
19:44 < ke4qqq> I don't know how that bled out- but I agree the group
here cares - and meeting attendance is a must have.
19:44 < lxmaier_home> if we start doing things (and making shit
happen) they'll come back
19:45 < gregdek> Yep.
19:45 < lxmaier_home> and then some
19:45 < ke4qqq> lxmaier_home: agreed
19:45 < lxmaier_home> in my admittedly simple mind the key to success
is to be lean and mean
19:46 < lxmaier_home> did you guys know (if you don't work at RH) that
RH does not provide its employees with office supplies?
19:46 < ke4qqq> Alright - unless you are taking it Greg (or someone
else), I'll volunteer to handle the Southeast.
19:46 < herlo> I'm a linux instructor so I tend to have simple needs,
CDs or DVDs do me just fine
19:46 < ke4qqq> lxmaier_home: no - wow thats shocking - do you work
out of Raleigh? or home?
19:46 < lxmaier_home> you want a pencil, a marker, you go online and
order it and then get reimbursed -- and that's how i see the
19:46 < lxmaier_home> raleigh, HQ
19:47 < ke4qqq> lxmaier_home: that doesn't scale well - if you need to
order 10,000 CDs and then get reimbursed thats a painful reimbursement
19:47 * gregdek nods.
19:47 < lxmaier_home> agreed with the 100,000 DVDs
19:47 < gregdek> So this is where the focus becomes very important.
19:47 < ke4qqq> and I dont think with Rodrigo that happens
19:47 < lxmaier_home> but not with other stuff like t-shirts
19:47 < gregdek> We front cash to Rodrigo.
19:47 < herlo> lxmaier_home: for us, I could see a quarterly budget
request too, which might be paypaled. Question I still have, and
maybe this is for next
week, but why don't we find some centralized resources
and have them do the work for us, drop shipping works...
19:48 < gregdek> herlo: That's fine too.
19:48 < herlo> I think there's something there
19:48 < herlo> gregdek: thanks
19:48 < ke4qqq> herlo: someone has to set it up and manage it - we
looked at this at one point and it dropped off the radar
19:48 < lxmaier_home> herlo: yes it kinda works, but kinda does not --
that's why we're here
19:48 < herlo> what does and doesn't work?
19:48 * stickster shows up really late and is so sorry
19:49 < lxmaier_home> if we had someone in raleigh to manage the mass
production and drop-shipping then yes this would work
19:49 * gregdek resists the urge to boot stickster. ;)
19:49 < stickster> kickban!
19:49 < gregdek> Here's another thing: we chose a crappy vendor, and
we're stuck with them.
19:49 < lxmaier_home> but unfortunately, we dont have a headcount to
do this full-time, and more important stuff comes up and the schwag
drops off the table
19:49 < ke4qqq> it's more than efficiency - we need the 'authority'
thing - we gotta break the 'dependency' We love the RH people - but
it's not working.
19:49 < gregdek> I *hate* the RH schwag vendor.
19:49 < herlo> lxmaier_home: why does it have to be at raleigh?
19:50 < gregdek> It doesn't.
19:50 < gregdek> It can be anywhere there's someone to look after it.
19:50 < lxmaier_home> herlo: cause that's where the money is, RH --
that's why i advocate giving money to the regions
19:50 < ke4qqq> if you decentralize you can have a cluster of people
available to fill requests - no need to have the ball dropped.
19:50 < herlo> lxmaier_home: sure, but its not my question you are answering
19:50 < lxmaier_home> herlo: in a way, i thought i was :)
19:50 < herlo> you are saying give money to the regions, I'm asking
couldn't it be centralized elsewhere? And why does it have to be
19:51 < gregdek> If I trust the people, I don't want to manage them.
19:51 < ke4qqq> you mean RH is tied to BFS - not us. (unless someone
has spoken for us)
19:51 < gregdek> I want to give them money and say "go make Teh Magic."
19:51 < lxmaier_home> +1
19:51 < lxmaier_home> give the money (AKA power) to the people
19:51 < gregdek> And if their version of Teh Magic is Centralized
Schwag Repo, so be it.
19:51 * herlo thinks that we give an image every six months to some
chosen vendor and have them create X number of stuff and ship it to
ambassadors. I mean it has to be shipped anyway
19:52 < lxmaier_home> we may lose 10-20% in inefficiency because of
lack of scale, but we'll win by having people engaged and empowered
19:52 < herlo> essentially, it could be a local company as well, but
one source seems less expensive
19:52 < gregdek> Fact is, the Centralized Schwag Repo that RH is stuck
with sucks. And when I try to make schwag, it comes out late, too
expensive, and not
19:52 * gregdek thinks.
19:53 < gregdek> Why don't we just work with Karlie Robinson for all this stuff?
19:53 < lxmaier_home> giving money to the regions will make them own
what they do, make them engaged, and most importanlty accountable.
19:53 < lxmaier_home> karlie is still around? sure! I like here
19:53 < lxmaier_home> s/here/her
19:53 < herlo> gregdek: okay. So I guess what I am driving at is
maybe the same thing lxmaier_home is. I'm happy to be the Rocky
ambassador, but I'll need some handholding
19:53 < lxmaier_home> she is very committed
19:53 < gregdek> Hey ian.
19:54 < herlo> karlie is well committed, yes. I think she's very
good, especially at helping with the Media project IIRC
19:54 < ke4qqq> yeah and Karlie knowsher way around the media business.
19:54 * herlo has an idea.
19:54 < ianweller> gregdek: yo
19:54 < gregdek> herlo: shoot.
19:55 < herlo> One thing I think about is that we could consider
putting in requests for what we need on a 6 month basis, have it done
prior to the next
release and have it all budgeted.
19:55 < herlo> I can see there might be possibilities where we'd need
some *extra* requests, but it might just make it easier if we have a
big bag of stuff
to last us 6 months
19:55 < ke4qqq> herlo: things are too much in flux for that - only the
big shows have a 6 month lead time.
19:56 < gregdek> Well, that's the kind of projection we already do.
19:56 < herlo> it is?
19:56 < lxmaier_home> i might be repeating myself but i'll say it
anyway: i believe that if we have RH produce stuff and distribute it,
we'llnever wean off
the NA ambassaadors to self-sufficiency. if we
give the money to the regions instead, the committed ones will step
self-select. then the region can manage for
themselves, 6-months plans etc. like they see fit.
19:56 < gregdek> We're always guessing to some extent or the other.
19:56 < gregdek> Basically:
19:56 < gregdek> * Fedora comes out.
19:57 < ke4qqq> herlo: lets take that power and control at regional
level. no need to set a NA policy I'd think
19:57 < gregdek> * Max orders a ton of DVDs/CDs from BrandFuel.
19:57 < gregdek> * We ship them piecemeal for six months.
19:57 < gregdek> * Lather, rinse, repeat.
19:57 < herlo> gregdek: I'm thinking we should do it *before* the next
release comes out.
19:57 < herlo> but I get it
19:57 < herlo> ke4qqq: I agree
19:57 < herlo> that makes sense
19:57 < herlo> sorry to shake the bugs off
19:57 < herlo> but I'm still new to this whole Ambassador business
19:58 < gregdek> Heh.
19:58 < gregdek> It's tricksy. :)
19:58 < gregdek> ke4qqq: Will you be at POSSCON, btw?
19:58 < lxmaier_home> i agree -- install media should be mass-produced
and shipped out to regions etc. centrally if the money/resources
allow. but if a
region decided to use their money to produce
more, why not?
19:58 < ke4qqq> gregdek: yes
19:58 < gregdek> ke4qqq: See you there, then.
19:58 < ke4qqq> lxmaier_home: it takes WEEKS after the release before
media is available.
19:58 < herlo> lxmaier_home: is that based upon some sort of metric?
19:59 < lxmaier_home> nope, just crappy vendor
19:59 < ke4qqq> and we are on a 6-month release cycle.
19:59 < herlo> lxmaier_home: oh, rossy was asking about the centrally
19:59 < lxmaier_home> so maybe decentralized production on as-needed
basis is betteR?
19:59 < gregdek> ke4qqq: I've got to think that Karlie could help with this.
19:59 < herlo> s/rossy/actually/
19:59 < gregdek> She has financial incentive to do business with us,
*and* she believes in the cause.
20:00 < ke4qqq> are we (usign whatever form of 'we' you'd like) locked
into Brand Fuel? Yes Karlie could probably turning around much faster.
20:00 < gregdek> Whereas Brandfuel doesn't give a shit about Fedora.
20:00 < gregdek> We are NOT locked into Brandfuel.
20:00 < lxmaier_home> we don't have to use BFuel
20:00 < herlo> yay!
20:00 < gregdek> We stick with them because we're lazy and have other
problems to solve.
20:00 < herlo> sounds to me like there's some business ot be got!
20:01 < ke4qqq> Alright - I'll take pinging Karlie on this as an
action item - see what she can offer us. Anyone have an idea of the
20:01 < ke4qqq> I noticed you said 'ton' ,but not sure if that is
metric or imperial
20:01 * stickster hoping iWolf is watching this.
20:01 < gregdek> We produced about 2500 CDs/DVDs for NA for Fedora 9.
20:01 < gregdek> Is that a good number? A bad number? No idea. We
pulled it right out of our ass with what budget we had left.
20:02 < lxmaier_home> that cost us what? 3000?
20:02 < gregdek> But it'll all get used.
20:02 < ke4qqq> sounds really low to me. I have seen 500 handed out at
relatively small cons in NA.
20:02 < gregdek> Oh wait... actually, with the discs we went with
another local vendor who screwed it all up.
20:02 < gregdek> I don't recall the cost off the top of my head.
20:03 < gregdek> But honestly, I'll tell you what scales:
20:03 < gregdek> We pick a number and give it to you.
20:03 < ke4qqq> We == RH?
20:03 < gregdek> Yes.
20:03 < gregdek> To start, anyway.
20:03 * gregdek wonders whatever happened to Fedora Unity's non-profit...
20:04 < lxmaier_home> stickster: did you get a chance to see the
message i sent you earlier today?
20:04 < gregdek> "We have $10k to spend! You tell us what vendors to
pay, and how much, and we will pay them!"
20:04 < gregdek> Something like that.
20:04 < stickster> lxmaier_home: Yes, and I believe I replied
20:04 < inode0> gregdek: you sent out a list of things (lug outreach,
govt. outreach, campus recruiting, etc.) - will we get to any of that
20:04 * lxmaier_home looks for stickster's email
20:05 < gregdek> inode0: Good point.
20:05 < stickster> lxmaier_home: iWolf is Jeffrey Tadlock.
20:05 < gregdek> Much of this has still revolved around "events and schwag".
20:05 < herlo> gregdek: I'd like some more CDs DVDs, already out
20:05 < gregdek> Do people have time/inclination to go on a bit longer?
20:05 * herlo does
20:05 < ke4qqq> gregdek: can you give us an idea of how NA money has
been spent in the past - let us look at that - not that we want to
repeat, but just as a
point of reference.
20:05 < ke4qqq> sure
20:05 < gregdek> herlo: Send me a mail. ;)
20:05 < herlo> gregdek: done
20:05 < pcalarco> sure thing
20:05 < gregdek> In NA, we spend money on:
20:06 < gregdek> 1. schwag. Simple stuff that we can send everywhere.
Simple shirts, simple cds/dvds, simple stickers, simple.
20:06 < gregdek> 2. sending people to conferences who can't afford to
get there otherwise.
20:06 < gregdek> That's almost entirely it.
20:06 < ke4qqq> is 2. RH people or non-RH people?
20:07 < gregdek> non-RH people.
20:07 < herlo> did you say how much the budget was?
20:07 < herlo> I assume it depends, but
20:07 < gregdek> Sometimes RH people come to beg us for money to send
some engineer, and we will if we think it's a good deal, but we try to
money for non-RH folks.
20:07 < gregdek> It's anywhere from $5k to $25k a quarter for NA.
20:07 < herlo> that's quite a variance
20:07 < ke4qqq> why such a wide swing?
20:07 < gregdek> FUDCon.
20:08 < gregdek> In a quarter where we have a US FUDCon, the spend goes up.
20:08 < ke4qqq> I'd imagine that's out of Ambassadors baliwick
20:08 < ke4qqq> or are we taking that over too :)
20:08 < gregdek> Unclear, to be honest.
20:08 < gregdek> As yet, that's a pretty big job. :)
20:08 < ke4qqq> indeed
20:09 < gregdek> But I'm certainly not averse to giving it over to
Ambassadors if they want it.
20:09 * herlo wonders if 1) FUDCon could get its own budget and 2)
Each Ambassador group could get a piece of that to send certain folks
20:09 * lxmaier_home would advocate giving fudcon to ambassadors, like in EMEA
20:09 < ke4qqq> we aren't ready for that yet. we can't even manage
swag - give us 6 months or so.
20:09 < gregdek> +1. :)
20:09 * herlo doesn't mean that we should run FUDCon, but I think its
in the right location...
20:10 < herlo> I was more interested in separating it out
20:10 < herlo> so that funding is more clear
20:10 * gregdek nods.
20:10 < gregdek> You know what? Let's find Max's budget page.
20:10 < gregdek> One sec.
20:11 < herlo> and when it comes time for FUDCon, ambassadors, as well
as any other SCo, could have access to funds to send people...
20:11 < stickster> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Expenses
20:12 < gregdek> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Expenses
20:12 < gregdek> Doh!
20:12 < gregdek> :)
20:12 < herlo> lol
20:12 < herlo> gregdek: I like sticksters better, its secure!
20:12 < gregdek> Ass. :)
20:12 < ke4qqq> we have interns?
20:12 < herlo> :-D
20:12 < gregdek> They're engineering interns that do Fedora stuff.
20:13 < stickster> heh
20:13 < ke4qqq> It'd be nice if we could see how global swag was
broken down by continent.
20:13 < gregdek> Yeah, that would be nice.
20:13 < gregdek> More work for Max, but what does he care? :)
20:13 < gregdek> There are limitations to using a wiki for this stuff.
20:14 < gregdek> You basically get one view.
20:14 < ke4qqq> what I do see is that the EMEA folks are getting
pretty big spend for conferences.
20:14 < gregdek> We could keep it in a spreadsheet with multiple
column breakdowns and such, or even use GnuCash or something, but it's
20:14 < gregdek> ke4qqq: Because they ask for it, and handle logistics.
20:14 < inode0> different continents have different needs, we need to
figure out what we need regardless of what funding other people get
20:15 < ke4qqq> I am not saying that theshouldn't, more admiring
20:15 < gregdek> inode0: Excellent point.
20:15 < gregdek> And since you keep trying to get us away from budget talk... :)
20:15 < ke4qqq> I don't disagre inode0 - just impressed with what they
20:15 < gregdek> Shall we table this for now, and talk more about goals?
20:15 < ke4qqq> +1
20:15 < gregdek> Since I think that's the discussion that inode0 is
keen to dig into.
20:15 < herlo> goals would be good
20:16 < herlo> something I'd like to *not* see as a goal. Separate
Fedora User Groups.
20:16 < gregdek> inode0: Do you want the floor? :)
20:17 < inode0> I'm keenly interested in academic outreach
20:17 < inode0> an untapped goldmine
20:17 < gregdek> Yes. I wish Jack were here.
20:18 < inode0> so do I since I know he has some ideas about how to
20:18 < inode0> perhaps he can be poked for next meeting?
20:18 * gregdek mutters.
20:18 < gregdek> Most definitely.
20:19 < inode0> ok, then FUGs/LUGs - shall we mount an all out
offensive against them for F10? :)
20:19 < herlo> ugh, no FUGs
20:19 < inode0> no FUGs?
20:19 < herlo> I find that (at least in Utah), we have disparate groups already
20:19 < gregdek> Is the LUG dead?
20:20 < gregdek> I think the LUG is dead.
20:20 < herlo> and we'll just make more little tiny islands
20:20 < herlo> gregdek: I believe its not
20:20 < herlo> the LUGs in UTAH are quite strong
20:20 < herlo> we have about 15
20:20 < herlo> and they all go pretty well
20:20 < inode0> we have active FUGs :)
20:20 < herlo> a couple struggle here and there. But maybe Utah is unique
20:20 < ke4qqq> LUGs as we know them are - but a few active here and there.
20:20 < gregdek> How can we leverage the LUGs to make inroads into
Doing Good Things For The World?
20:21 < gregdek> Had this discussion with the folks at my local LUG.
20:21 < inode0> the organize barcamps in my area
20:21 < herlo> I think there's room there
20:21 < ke4qqq> your local lug isn't 'normal' it's way above what most
20:21 < inode0> +y
20:21 < gregdek> It's become a social club where Linux interest is
essentially accepted and secondary. Quite insular.
20:21 < herlo> gregdek: ahh, well we still have meetings and the like.
But there is that *social* aspect that many people deem necessary
20:22 < inode0> gregdek: leveraging universities to do good things for
the world might be more effective
20:22 < herlo> the real nerds now just hang out on irc and discuss how
to make a better kernel and modules :)
20:22 < gregdek> Seems like most LUGs tend to whiff the "outreach" bits. :)
20:22 < gregdek> inode0: Bingo. You are exactly right.
20:22 < herlo> agreed, that's why I created the Utah Open Source
20:22 < ke4qqq> greg: exactly - apparently they need a 'purpose'
20:23 < f13> oh man, I totally missed the start of this meeting.
20:23 < gregdek> See? Hold it and they will come. ;)
20:23 < stickster> Our LUG is doing SFD
20:23 < inode0> another place that is untapped mostly is church
outreach groups, I gave an OLPC talk to one that is considering a 400
20:23 < gregdek> f13: You're only 1hr20m late!
20:23 < herlo> maybe there's an opportunity here. Have *events* for
the LUGs, speakers, bbqs, etc that we can discuss Fedora in a less
20:23 < stickster> f13: I only beat you by a half-hour, so I won't gloat
20:24 < stickster> Churches and area NPOs are good targets for evangelism.
20:24 < gregdek> I agree.
20:24 < f13> herlo: informal formats for the win.
20:24 < gregdek> Strongly.
20:24 < ke4qqq> indeed- I have given a number of talks to area Lions
Clubs and Rotaries, and they were suprisingly receptive.
20:25 < herlo> ke4qqq: hmm, interesting idea.
20:25 < f13> I've always had more success in the informal social scene
than any standing in front of people talking.
20:25 * herlo looks up the local BPOE
20:25 < gregdek> I love the idea of targeting organizations that are
accustomed to civic activism.
20:26 < gregdek> Take people who are accustomed to doing cool stuff
for their communities, and give them great tools to help.
20:26 < inode0> they are fundraising machines and don't blink at what
are large numbers to most of us
20:26 < gregdek> Exactly right.
20:26 < ke4qqq> but what is the 'call to action' for those groups?
20:26 < gregdek> Ask them!
20:26 < gregdek> Get computers into the poorest libraries in your county.
20:26 < gregdek> For instance.
20:27 < pcalarco> or inner-city schools
20:27 < gregdek> Heh. Schools... tough sell.
20:27 < gregdek> I like to avoid angry, entrenched, unionized bureaucracies. ;)
20:27 < gregdek> But that's just me.
20:28 < pcalarco> there are some libraries like that too :)
20:28 < ke4qqq> my lug is running a program that is putting refurbed
computers running Fedora into 'economically challenged' hands
20:28 < gregdek> Anyway, I think that a lot of good brainstorming
along these lines could be done.
20:28 < stickster> gregdek: ke4qqq: Get Linux into the hands of
Goodwill or other thrift stores
20:28 < gregdek> What I *crave* is a list of *success stories* along
20:28 < stickster> All the relief orgs.
20:29 < herlo> we have a local school district putting Ubuntu LTSP
into two classrooms this coming school year
20:29 < ke4qqq> good point Greg: what are we trying to accomplish at
this part of the meeting.
20:29 < gregdek> Yeah, we are 1.5hrs in.
20:29 < gregdek> I'd say we're in the midst of a strategy discussion.
20:30 < gregdek> That should probably continue at a later date.
20:30 < gregdek> Our current strategy has been to send people to
Linux/Open Source events.
20:30 < gregdek> Is that the right place to focus, or should we be
20:30 < herlo> this is definitely import
20:30 < herlo> ant
20:30 < gregdek> I think it's a key strategic question to answer.
20:31 < gregdek> Because the answer means that we would take
dramatically different steps to reach such a goal.
20:31 < herlo> maybe there's a balance needed there.
20:31 < herlo> I don't see why diversifying our goals is a bad thing
20:31 < herlo> other than we really can't accomplish them all in the
first 6 months
20:32 < ke4qqq> we can't drop cons/events but we need to 'reach out'
to the unwashed masses as well.
20:32 < pcalarco> I need to log folks, thank you for the interesting
discussion; happy to help more as we go forward;g'nite!
20:32 < inode0> I'd like to at least think hard about shifting some
focus to new areas
20:33 < gregdek> Diversifying our goals is okay if we're willing to
reach out to all of them.
20:33 < gregdek> So...
20:33 < gregdek> ...maybe we've reached the end of our meeting.
20:33 < herlo> could we have a rotating target?
20:33 < f13> heh
20:34 < gregdek> Rotating target?
20:34 < herlo> something like focus on one area for a while, then add
another, and another, etc
20:34 < gregdek> Maybe.
20:34 < gregdek> The choice is yours. ;)
20:34 < ke4qqq> expanding range of targets.
20:34 < ke4qqq> so what action items before the next meeting and when
is the next meeting?
20:35 < herlo> right, give us something *different* to do when things
are working in one area or another
20:35 < inode0> or subgroups for people to focus on specific areas in
20:35 < herlo> right
20:35 < herlo> ke4qqq: are you saying we should be done :)
20:35 < gregdek> Is weekly too frequent at this point?
20:35 < ke4qqq> herlo: gregdek mentioned it a moment ago
20:35 < inode0> this is the point where it might not be too frequent
20:35 < herlo> I don't think so, I'm willing to meet
20:36 < ke4qqq> gregdek: no - withthis small of group too long and
we'll languish on the vine
20:36 < herlo> ke4qqq: I know. :)
20:36 < gregdek> All right, then.
20:36 < herlo> todo's for next week?
20:36 < gregdek> Next week I'll be at OSCON, but I think we should meet anyway.
20:36 < ke4qqq> +1
20:37 < gregdek> So the first TODO is to figure out how we track progress.
20:37 < gregdek> I've always used the simple grid like we use in the
20:37 < gregdek> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks
20:37 < ke4qqq> that will work for the time being.
20:38 < ke4qqq> we may need something else when we become more regionalized.
20:38 < inode0> If we can get Jack next week I think that conversation
could consume a substantial hunk of time
20:38 < gregdek> I know that Jack wants a separate program that is
laser-focused on campus-based activities.
20:38 < herlo> do we have a page like that?
20:38 < gregdek> I'm waiting for him to announce something. :)
20:38 < inode0> yes, and how can we help in that
20:38 < ke4qqq> herlo: no but we can create one.
20:39 < gregdek> herlo: I'll take the action item to create the Tasks
page for NA Ambassadors.
20:39 < herlo> ke4qqq: that's what I was gonna offer, just need the list
20:39 < herlo> gregdek: k
20:39 < gregdek> And then everyone else can fill it with potential tasks. :)
20:39 < gregdek> And we can discuss all of them.
20:39 < inode0> gregdek: it is also possible our goals wrt to
universities might not entirely intersect with his
20:39 < herlo> I was going to say, another task would be to find a
better vendor in regional areas I guess
20:39 < herlo> but I'll put it on the wiki
20:39 < gregdek> Do we want a separate NA ambassadors mailing list?
20:40 < herlo> how busy is the current one?
20:40 * herlo hasn't looked at stats
20:40 < ke4qqq> gregdek: not yet lets see what attention we grab in
the next few months before splitting off
20:40 < ke4qqq> hopefully ti will spark some fires
20:40 < gregdek> ke4qqq: ok.
20:40 < ke4qqq> and get more attention from people who aren't attendign
20:40 < ke4qqq> and draw them back into the fold
20:41 < inode0> talking on the general list will likely show evidence
of things happening to the dormant ambassadors which would be a
20:41 < gregdek> Good point.
20:41 < gregdek> All right.
20:41 < gregdek> Oh, who can send this log out to the list?
20:42 < ke4qqq> gregdek: whats to become of famsco? and by whose hand?
20:42 < herlo> I can
20:42 < herlo> gregdek: that was for the list
20:42 < gregdek> ke4qqq: a fair question, and one I'm not ready to answer yet.
20:43 < herlo> f-am-l right?
20:43 < gregdek> But I think the writing's on the wall.
20:43 < gregdek> herlo: yes.
20:43 < herlo> I'll send it out shortly
20:43 < ke4qqq> yeah I feel reticent to depose elected people - but
divestiture of power is already occurring. Perhaps fedboard or
something. or it gets
reshaped as something else.
20:44 < gregdek> Governance models reshape themselves all the time.
20:44 < gregdek> If FAMSCO is serving its constituents, it will prosper.
20:44 < gregdek> If not, it will die.
20:44 < gregdek> Anyway.
20:44 < gregdek> I guess we're at an end.
20:45 < f13> fin
20:46 < gregdek> Thanks y'all. I'll make this a weekly meeting for now.
Bom dia a todos
Precisamos de ajuda para levantar sugestões de nomes e obter
logomarcas ou banners das seguintes empresas, comunidades e/ou portais
de software livre para utiliza-los no preenchimentos dos espaços em
branco que prejudicam o visual das páginas de nossa revista.
Lista de fontes de publicidade para preenchimento de espaços vasios:
Red Hat Brasil
Eventos Nacionais e Internacionais:
Software Freedom Day
Comunidades e portais:
OLPC(One Laptop per Child) – Brasil e Internacional
Núcleos de Estudos de Software Livre (referenciando as universidades
que os mantém):
Precisamos de ajuda porque não possuimos os contatos com todas estas
empresas ou comunidades, portanto, se alguém souber de e-mail de
contato, ou já possuir um banner promocional ou qualquer arte
referente a estas empresas/comunidades/projetos
enviem para mim no e-mail:
Estou levantando um banco de imagens para disponibilizar logo mais na
seção de arquivos do grupo para que os diagramadores possam utilizar
nos artigos. Não mandem as imagens(arquivos) para a nossa área de
arquivo para economizarmos o espaço. Por favor, enviem o material de
divulgação solicitado para meu e-mail, ok?!
Obrigado pela atenção e apoio pessoal
Time de Arte Revista Fedora Brasil
<<Imaginando Desenhando Animando>>